Hi JørnRudolph,
Welcome to LandzDown! And also welcome Tesk, you are a new member since last I visited these forums!
I just wanted to comment on stealthzone's mini-rant.
As one who frequently needs advice on issues of internet privacy and security, I feel compelled to offer my perspective. Sometimes people get into trouble with privacy/security problems repeatedly, because they are just not knowledgable enough about their computers or the internet, to avoid it. Some of you professionals may be thinking something like '...then they shouldn't be using their computer or the internet if they don't know what they're doing'. But I heartily disagree -- what a boring place the world would be if there were no free spirits, who think there is nothing they can't do, once they learn how to do it! I really doubt very many people make exactly the same mistake time and time again. Rather I think it may be the case that they don't connect the lessons they've learned about what they did wrong that got them into trouble before, with what they may be doing now, which they have no clue might be getting them in trouble.
Such is the nature of the true "free spirit"! Almost by definition, or...inherently, they learn best by trial and error. When the free spirit thinks about it, computers and the internet are confoundingly confusing to learn to use. But that's the trouble with free spirits, they tend not to think about things too much....well, not about things that they're
doing anyway. Actually I think free spirits
think a whole lot about philosophical issues, love, beauty, art, music, passion, and the like, and can hold very high level and complex discussions about them. But put technology in front of them, or math, or science, for example, and they can be like small children -- 'ooooh, that's a pretty (or cool, or rad, or otherwise somehow interesting) button, I wonder what would happen if I push it?' In my case, I've learned from some fairly serious problems to give it a hefty measure of trying to figure out if there are any clues to its purpose, before pushing it. But you know, people who sell computers can make them sound SO EASY to use!! And, well, if anyone knows about computers, it's people who sell them, right? Yeah, unfortunately, free spirits can be a bit too trusting.
I'll give you a personal example. About 3 or 4 years ago, when I was using Norton Internet Security, my current subscription was expiring, along with support for the version I was running. So I was going to have to get the current version. And to my knowledge, there was no great difference between downloading the new version, or buying the CD. I know differently now, but at the time, downloading was slightly cheaper, and I could do it right that moment (which was the wee hours of the AM). So I purchased it online and set about to download it.
I quickly ran into trouble, however, when I couldn't download it, and kept getting some kind of error message (which I've long forgotten). So I contacted tech support, and they said, 'oh, you just need to disable your antivirus or firewall (I can't remember now, which)'. And I said, 'oh NO, I've been told NEVER to be on the internet without having those programs enabled!'. But they said (and btw, Symantec, as well as other tech support people, have several times told me to disable them, to allow downloads!), 'don't worry, our download sites have only the best security available anywhere, and you cannot get a virus while you are downloading from us.' "Trust me," he said, "nothing bad can happen to you as long as you are on the Symantec website, even if you have no AV or FW at all." Who was I (or any free spirit) to question them further? How could I doubt advice from internet security professionals, about internet security issues?
And how could those of you, who are internet security professionals, blame me, or any user like me, when I got a virus about 3/4 of the way through the download, which aborted the download. And I will repeat myself, that I've been told several times, by various tech support people (never here are LzD though
), to disable either my AV, FW, or both, for one reason or another, and then to log on to the internet to do whatever it is I'm trying to do. Ever since I got the virus while DLing from Symantec, I have refused to do it, and the tech support person usually can find another way to solve the problem. But with professionals dispensing such advice, I don't think you can blame un-technologically-oriented users when they get into trouble.
Ah, but there's still the main point I want to make. After the Norton DL aborted, and I got the virus alert, I went offline right away to deal with the virus. All the affected files could not be fixed, so a couple of them could only be quarantined. A few scans later (just to be sure), it looked like the virus had been successfully handled, and I went back online. I did NOT go straight to try the DL again, because I couldn't figure out how I would do it with my AV and FW enabled, and I wasn't going to fall for THAT trick again!
But I did go back to Symantec, to learn as much as I could about the particular virus I had gotten, what files it affected and how, etc. And oh, cool, I found a program that Symantec offered to clean up after this virus! How could I possibly get into trouble with this program, as long as my AV and FW were working? So I
, and tried to DL it, and there was no problem like before. I did successfully start the DL, with AV and FW enabled....or so I thought
.
But shortly into that DL, it aborted too, and I got multiple virus alerts, multiple non-virus related pop-ups, a huge browser slow-down, and then my computer shut down and restarted itself. When the puter was booted back up again, I looked to the [system tray icon notification area bottom right corner of the screen whatever you call it] to confirm that my AV and FW were still enabled. But the icons were completely GONE!! I was shocked! Certainly I'm not in the habit of looking at the tray every few moments, to make sure my security is enabled. But more importantly, what happened to my Norton programs???? OMG!!!
I spent the next several hours and days franticly trying to fix everything, and I can't remember exactly when I figured out how I got into trouble. But eventually I learned that the part of the process of downloading the new Norton product, which uninstalled the old product, was not aborted along with the download. Was it so naive for me to think that the uninstallation of the old product was not completed, because the download and installation of the new one wasn't? I still can't imagine how it happened that the old versions were removed, and apparently not protecting me, but I still got the virus alerts. Never before or since has any DL or installation aborted, while leaving parts of the DL or installation behind.
Yet when I took the remains of these problems, which I couldn't resolve by myself, to a support forum (LzD didn't exist, at that time), I was treated
exactly like stealthzone's mini-rant. Apparently at that particular forum, only 1 other member was allowed to help those members who were having problems. But the person assigned to me was so busy, it would take him literally a week to reply to each of my replies. Meanwhile, I would literally beg for others to jump in and help me with questions I had about his instructions. And a few did dare do so, but only with a great deal of apologizing to this person. After 6 weeks, with me unable to use the internet, except to look for replies on that forum, we had made precious little progress, and he finally told me I needed too much hand-holding, and that I should take my machine to a local shop and pay a professional to clean it! This man may take money for doing this as his "day job", the definition of "professional", but he did not behave towards me in a professional manner.
I think this experience is the perfect example of the danger of stealthzone's perspective. The professional gets a big head, and simply can't be bothered with what they consider to be stupid mistakes. But it takes one free spirit just a few hours to set up their new computer and figure out how to get on the internet. And from there, it looks to me like it takes less than an hour to unknowingly obtain a pretty serious collection of malware. Surely even professionals can't expect a person to learn 'safe internet-surfing practices' in such a short time. When I got my new computer, just 4 or 5 years ago, it did NOT contain even the most basic facts of internet safety and security. There were trial versions of Norton, and another AV, but no firewall. Apparently I read something, somewhere, about the importance of using a good AV program and FW, because I did subscribe to Symantec and purchase a full version of NIS. But other than that, I had no chance to learn anything about internet security, before happily and free-spiritedly jumping on to the internet with both feet and my new computer.
I understand that it must be incredibly frustrating dealing with people like me, free spirit that I am. I AM slowly learning, and teaching myself as I go. And I have NEVER been ungrateful for the help I've gotten from sympathetic support forums such as LandzDown.
But please, please, please, professionals, you must treat even non-professionals with respect and dignity. ESPECIALLY the newest and most novice of users. If you are offering free advice, then make it freely given, without regret or complaint. If you want to earn money for your advice, then open your own repair shop. But most importantly, if you want to be personally treated with respect and dignity, you must treat others with respect and dignity, even non-professionals who may appear to make the same mistakes again and again, because this is what you have chosen to do as your life's work!!
Sorry to go off-topic, but this is a response that I feel is important to make. If necessary, perhaps the moderators could use stealthzone's reply to start a new topic, and then make mine the 1st reply.
Thanks for listening
.
