LandzDown Forum

Hello Forum, Hello Corrine

I have run into a little problem  and would appreciate a word of advice from some real experts.

The problem has been discussed on other forums but none of these quite address my problem and wonder if you can help.

BillP suggested not long ago that I ditch Defender in favour of MSSE (MSE). A good suggestion and I like MSE as it works away without bothering me.  I have it setup much with default/recommended options with a daily full scan at 2pm (when I am usually having a siesta  ). 
On WP Start Up I just have WP, MSE and Outpost  (winpatrol.exe – express boot, msseces.exe –hide –runkey and op_mon.exe /tray/noserv).
I have checked on Services.msc that MSE is set to Automatic.
Six other applications are on delayed startup after 1 or 2 minutes.  Of these 6 only Skype needs a live internet connection.  However some updaters may be phoning home – only MS Updates is intentionally allowed.
When Windows opens, MSE also opens with a green icon.  However about 1 time in 10 it opens with a red icon and reports “Microsoft Security Essentials isn't monitoring your computer because the program's service stopped. You should restart it now.”  so I click on the “START NOW” button and after a longish pause the Icon will go green.  It may also unpredictably turn green on its own.
Do you happen to understand why this might happen?  (I have tried uninstalling/reinstalling MSE and this has not helped).

My concern is that I may not notice it is red after booting and open Firefox (which also opens all the pages I had been viewing when I closed down).  When I boot my PC is automatically on line -  and so far as I understand it my firewall (Outpost) is active from the start.  So my question is:
If MSE did not start properly and I open Firefox or Outlook am I in danger of collecting any bugs?  I presume the answer must be "YES"!  So what do I do to make sure MSE is always protecting my backside?

What a nice forum this is.  And what a nice collection of tempting smilies 
Cheers
Don


Home built PC based on MS-7181/AMD Sempron 2600, XPSP3 Activated and Automatically updated.  BIOS Phoenix - Award v6.00PG. RAM  512 Mbytes

Hi Corrine

Nice to see your rose bud again!  Happy Birthday!   29 again?  I became a great grandfather last week (in Raleigh NC)!

To refresh my bad memory I jumped back to SC and noticed my “Are We Compatible” is still the last problem anyone had with WP.  Amazing!

Going down memory lane is weird.  We had had computers around us for yonks but it was mid-1900’s when we got some sort of dial-up (AOL?) and a PC with Windows 95 but it all really started for us when I discovered Google in 1998!  In those days we had no security at all and were not troubled with malware and spam until about 2004 when I got cable broadband in Spain and  spent hours not minutes on line.  This was when I learnt about  anti-virus programs and firewalls etc.  And doubtless when we met for the first time as I explored AdAware and forum, SpyBot and ZoneAlarm, commodo and AVG and later Avast, WP, BitDefender, EasyCleaner and so forth.  I got infected a lot and in those days and I just reinstalled windows (I never did backups as I had nothing important to backup!).  Installing W98 and W2K was easy and probably didnt bother too much about updating.  So, finally, (whew take a big breath), you are right I probably did remove Avast to install MSE!!  I know I uninstalled Defender using Add and Remove.  I may well have had other realtime things running like teatimer.  Anyhow back in the days of “Are We Compatible” I ended up having a massive clean out (I had steeled my self to reinstall XP and was glad I did not have to) and really have been humming ever since and touch wood with nothing worse than the odd tracking cookie coming up.  

Enough from memory lane.  To answer your question
<<<What happens if you wait a bit to see if the icon changes?>>>  I tend to wait maybe a minute when my first app on delay starts but  sometimes it changes to green on its own but I have waited a few times for much longer and it becomes apparent it needs a manual start or it wont start.  

I have a vague idea this is only happening when its definitions are not updated.  This is supposed to happen automatically – I suppose it does its update thing when it starts.  If that is so I suppose it could get its wires crossed, so to speak.  If Windows does an automatic update check at boot time and my ADSL connection  is dodgy could that be the cause!

If this is  happening could I adequately protect myself by not looking at email until I was sure that MSE was green?  And ditto Firefox.  I do not use IE except when something refuses to work with Firefox.  On booting I know that there are some programs that update themselves without giving me a chance to tell them I don’t want them to!  Also I have Skype loading  with a 2 minute delay. Can this be dangerous if it happens when a AV is not monitoring? (In the case of Skype I could well start it manually – it became a habit to have it running when the PC is running – but back in UK I seldom use it).

I suspect Corrine this is not really too much of a problem as I have been using MSE now for some months with this happening and i havnt got smallpox yet.  Perhaps I shouldn’t worry?  And just enjoy another  

Thank you Corrine.  I confess that knowing than you are so close gives me confidence to do things I wouldn’t do if on my own!

<if you have upgraded to IE8, there is no reason to use Firefox over IE unless that is your preference.  We are past the days of IE5 and IE6 and discussions that they aren't secure>.

With my first AOL connection they used netscape then changed to IE and this was all double dutch to me at the time.  Then I found the US Govt at that time would not “export” 128 encriptation so got  a W98SE upgrade with IE6 when in USA to allow me to communicate with my US bank.  Then someone said Firefox was safer and I blindly followed this advice.  So got hooked, maybe a vote for the silent minority who were anti M$ monopoly at that time.  However, like a good boy  I did upgrade to IE8 but as it had various issues (a half blacked out interface screen mainly)  I could not be bothered to deal with and stuck with Firefox.  You have inspired me to look at again and cure its problems by disabling Themes (\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe –k netsvcs).  It is now functional and I made it default browser – to give it a chance to show me how good it is.  My first thoughts are it is rubbish as it has hung 3 times on a MS Update!! It brings up blank pages.  It is i n c r e d I b l y   s l o w w w w .  I cant stand the Bing-Thing and in general I never want to see it again.  However in view of your praise I will reinstall it and give it a proper work out!!  A quick google and find my opinion of IE8 is shared by 3 million others, some of whom use descriptive words that make me blush.  I seem to remember IE7 was okay but I only used it to keep one yahoo address logged whilst another was logged via Firefox (Yahoo normally only allows one account to be open at the same time on the same computer)!

<That wasn't necessary as MSE deactivates it.>

Nobody told me!!  But the result was the same

<As I am certain you know, the service is required before MSE can obtain updates.>

Well I didn’t know but if I had had sufficient grey cells working I might have perhaps suspected  this!  I had sort of understood that any program would  start up and function on its old updates and then get its updates.  Surely this is the way that firewalls, AdWatch, AVG and Avast work?

< It is also possible, as you indicated, that your ADSL connection could have an impact on the process since it is also part of the startup process>

  I am pretty much convinced this could be the problem.  I have checked and the telephone copper wires to our home were laid in 1965…..

<As to whether your computer is secure when you check your e-mail, MSE does not scan e-mail, per se.  It does, however, scan downloaded files and attachments if you have that option checked in the Settings Tab > Real-time protection.>

Yes I have that option checked.  So am I right in thinking that malware and other viruses etc cant infect one from the mere fact of opening a mail program (in my case Outlook) – but not attachments (which I assume includes downloaded files).  If a browser loads the sites it had open when it was closed (and MSE) was "off duty" could that open a door for any malware to enter?

<If you want to keep Skype in startup, why not increase the delay?>

  Yes I will put my six apps on a long delay!  I do find Skype-Out handy  as it is cheaper than my landline – but most of all I use it as a quick telephone book when my wife is struggling to find a number on her cell phone!


Thanks for pointing me to <http://winpatrolhelp.blogspot.com/> where I learnt a few things I did not understand before (eg Mozilla cookies)!  Oh – and why Scotty moves! Oh - and I am sorry I made my last post red I had forgotten your poor old eyes!

 
Don
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Thank you Corrine.  I confess that knowing than you are so close gives me confidence to do things I wouldn’t do if on my own!

Even when I'm not around, the other members here are very helpful.  In fact, if you run short on our GR@PH;<'S will ensure you get a home delivery. 

Quote

<As I am certain you know, the service is required before MSE can obtain updates.>

Well I didn’t know but if I had had sufficient grey cells working I might have perhaps suspected  this!  I had sort of understood that any program would  start up and function on its old updates and then get its updates.  Surely this is the way that firewalls, AdWatch, AVG and Avast work?

Well, that isn't quite comparing like objects.  Generally, firewalls do not receive frequent updates but will begin working as soon as started.  Although I haven't used Ad-Watch in five or so years, it has updates, but is really more of a real-time monitoring program so also a different animal than antivirus software.  As to antivirus software working on existing definitions, yes, of course, you are correct.  After all, each vendor has a different method of upgrading.  Some vendors may release as soon as the updates get to be a certain size.  With others, it may depend on the severity of the malware included in the defs as to the speed in releasing.  I follow the definition update notices for MSE and I think some people would be surprised at both the frequency and number of new definitions added.  You can get an idea at https://www.microsoft.com/security/portal/Definitions/ADL.aspx which will show the latest update.

Quote

<As to whether your computer is secure when you check your e-mail, MSE does not scan e-mail, per se.  It does, however, scan downloaded files and attachments if you have that option checked in the Settings Tab > Real-time protection.>

Yes I have that option checked.  So am I right in thinking that malware and other viruses etc cant infect one from the mere fact of opening a mail program (in my case Outlook) – but not attachments (which I assume includes downloaded files).  If a browser loads the sites it had open when it was closed (and MSE) was "off duty" could that open a door for any malware to enter?

As long as you are merely reading and not opening any links or attachments, you should be fine.  However, we do want to keep an eye on things and see if MSE does "turn green" on its own if you leave it for a while.

Thanks for pointing me to <http://winpatrolhelp.blogspot.com/> where I learnt a few things I did not understand before (eg Mozilla cookies)! 

You'll find that we're all WinPatrol fans here and consider Bill a good friend. 

If you find yourself needing time for a break, you might want to stop in the Lounge and play a game or two or check out the Jokes forum.

Please keep me posted about MSE.

It should read like this I think! Check the link below to see if your missing any updates.

http://www.update.microsoft.com/microsoftupdate/v6/default.aspx?ln=en-us

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