Author Topic: McAfee vs Windows Defender and Windows Firewall?  (Read 19757 times)

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Offline Pete!

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Re: McAfee vs Windows Defender and Windows Firewall?
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2015, 05:57:27 PM »
........With reference to firewalls you may want to examine a couple of sites that I have found useful:..........
Thanks....
Thanks to your links, I found "Windows 10 Firewall Control"
The review was for the Windows 7 version, but the new version was easy to find.
http://www.sphinx-soft.com/Vista/order.html

If the free version works as advertised, and it simplifies setting up the Windows Firewall, I may stay with the Windows Firewall. I'm going to try it  :)


Offline Corrine

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Re: McAfee vs Windows Defender and Windows Firewall?
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2015, 06:07:44 PM »
v_v,

I agree with your recommendation regarding A/V, firewall, real-time, etc. protection.  However, since you're still using an old (unsupported) OS, I suspect you aren't up to date on the software for current systems.  Windows Defender was not introduced as an antivirus software until the release of Windows 8 in 2012.  During the 1999-2000 time frame, Windows Defender was an anti-spyware program.  As Bill posted above, Microsoft Security Essentials (MSE) was retrofitted for interface with Windows secured boot, a new Window 8 protection feature at that time.

As to matousec.com, they were noted for firewall tests some time ago.  The referenced security challenge is from a year ago so not particularly relevant to current Windows installations.


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Offline Digerati

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Re: McAfee vs Windows Defender and Windows Firewall?
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2015, 06:16:55 PM »
You are right, you did not say it was not a two-way firewall. But you did say it was one way by default and that is incorrect.

And it is also incorrect to say the setup is tedious. In fact, for the vast majority of users, no setup is required at all. It works perfectly fine using the initial default settings. In fact, except for some on-line gamers, it is rare any changes to the defaults are ever needed.

Not only that, but unlike all other 3rd party firewalls, the Windows Firewall is coded to block unauthorized access during the initial boot stages of the operating system, well before any of the 3rd party firewall code even has a chance to load. This is particularly important when you first install Windows and are most vulnerable.

Truth be told, I see no reason to use any 3rd party firewall with any modern version of Windows (7, 8 or 10). They just are not need and consume extra system resources (RAM, disk space, and CPU cycles) while provide no significant added value.

Windows 7, 8 and especially Windows 10 are NOT XP and should not treated as such.

I have said this before but it bears worth repeating. You do not need an Abrams tank to be safe. But you do need to keep your car up to current standards, AND you need to drive defensively. Same with your computer. You need a modern OS, keep it updated, and don't be "click-happy" on unsolicited downloads, attachments and links. Even the best security cannot keep you (the user and always weakest link) safe if you open the door and let the badguy in.

As for your first two links, they are immaterial to this discussion as they don't address the security native to Windows. And if you note, your third link does indeed point out that Windows Firewall has outbound protection. It just focuses on the limited customization it allows. But again, only a very few users ever need to dink with firewall settings, but for those who do, WF allows to define custom inbound or outbound rules as you choose fit. And like most programs, once you learn how to use that particular program, it is not hard or tedious to use.

As for earlier versions of Windows Defender, it is important to note it is not, in any way, related to the Windows Defender found in Windows 8 or Windows 10. Unfortunately, this is another example of Microsoft creating confusion by using the same or similar names for two different programs.

As v_v noted, the Windows Defender that works with Windows 7 and earlier versions of Windows is an anti-spyware only program. It does NOT scan for viruses, worms, Trojans or the like. Only spyware.

Way back in 2004, Microsoft started to get fed up with the relentless and often unfounded bashing they were getting over security. So they purchased one of the leading anti-spyware programs of the day called Giant Anti-spyware, renamed it as Windows Defender, then released it for free.

Fast forward to Windows 8 and Microsoft enhanced Microsoft Security Essentials, renamed the enhanced version to Windows Defender and embedded it into Windows 8 (and now W10 too). This W8/W10 version of Windows Defender is a full anti-malware solution. It scans for spyware, but also scans for viruses, worms, Trojans and other malicious software (malware). It was not simply retrofitted for Secure Boot (a feature of UEFI) overhauled as a full anti-malware solution.
Bill (AFE7Ret)
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Offline 2harts4ever

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Re: McAfee vs Windows Defender and Windows Firewall?
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2015, 09:30:42 PM »
Everyone,

Just wanted to update everyone on what is going on with my post.

McAfee is history on my computer! 

I created a restore point and then disabled all my McAfee programs.  Then using Add/Remove in my control panel I uninstalled McAfee.  Rebooted and then ran the McAfee Remove Program, rebooted and then updated Defender. Windows Firewall started as soon as I deleted the McAfee firewall. 

I ran my first scan with Defender and all is well.

All your comments and information are much appreciated and leaves me with one more question:

Are there any settings I need to change in Windows Firewall that I should be aware of as I begin using it?

I have to get off the computer now because my wife says she is about to throw my 73-year old body out in the street if I don't let her back on the computer soon ...lol

Thanks and regards,
2harts4ever
" ... Nuff Said.  Keep Smiling Because I'm Smiling Too ..."

Offline Corrine

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Re: McAfee vs Windows Defender and Windows Firewall?
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2015, 10:37:48 PM »
For when you wife lets you back on the computer:  I haven't found it necessary to make any changes in Windows Firewall and have used it on Windows Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8.1 and Windows 10.


Take a walk through the "Security Garden" -- Where Everything is Coming up Roses!

Remember - A day without laughter is a day wasted.
May the wind sing to you and the sun rise in your heart.

Offline 2harts4ever

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Re: McAfee vs Windows Defender and Windows Firewall?
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2015, 11:03:42 PM »
Hi Corrine,

Speaking of Windows 10 I just received my notice that my upgrade is available.  I think I will give it a shot.  Keep your fingers crossed.

Thanks and regards,
2harts4ever
" ... Nuff Said.  Keep Smiling Because I'm Smiling Too ..."

Offline Corrine

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Re: McAfee vs Windows Defender and Windows Firewall?
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2015, 11:48:53 PM »
I think it has been around 12 years that I've known you and I have every confidence that you'll do just fine. 


Take a walk through the "Security Garden" -- Where Everything is Coming up Roses!

Remember - A day without laughter is a day wasted.
May the wind sing to you and the sun rise in your heart.

Offline v_v

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Re: McAfee vs Windows Defender and Windows Firewall?
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2015, 05:29:26 AM »
Corrine,

I am sort of confused by your comments.  My post was mostly about possible 3rd party firewalls and my experience with the predecessor of Windows Defender.

What I was saying was that I used "earlier versions of Windows Defender before it was called by that name."  When I used it, it was called Microsoft Antispyware, and I found it to be a good anti-spyware program at that time.  That was all that I intended to communicate.  As you correctly noted because of my dated system I do not have any present relevant experience with Windows Defender.  (And Digerati/Bill's post did further clarify the situation.)

As for firewalls my only intention was to provide additional sources of information for 2harts4ever to possibly consider.  The Matousec Proactive Security Challenge 64 may contain slightly dated material but it still provides a list of decent 3rd party firewalls if one were to be interested in exploring such possibilities.

Again given my older system I could not and did not make any actual recommendations for someone using Windows 8.1 and moving to Windows 10 (except for WinPatrol!)

Now that 2harts4ever has successfully removed McAfee and begun using Windows Defender and Firewall all is well.

v_v
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Offline 2harts4ever

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Re: McAfee vs Windows Defender and Windows Firewall?
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2015, 09:57:15 AM »
Morning Corrine,
 
You said: ...."I think it has been around 12 years that I've known you and I have every confidence that you'll do just fine."

I did get Windows 10 installed and up and running but I am still in the dark with a lot of the changes.  As an example I haven't been able to figure out how I can use my email program (Outlook.com).  I saved the link from IE 11 but when I bring it up I see my incoming box but it won't let me open, delete or look at any of the unread messages??

So after church services today I know what I will be doing ...lol

Thanks for your vote of confidence ...lol  I just wish I had your expertise right now.

If I can't figure some of the Win10 things out I will post a new question.

As of right now I can't utilize any of the forum items like Bold, Underline, quote, etc.  Any ideas?

Thanks and regards,
2harts4ever





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Offline Corrine

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Re: McAfee vs Windows Defender and Windows Firewall?
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2015, 01:07:34 PM »
Sorry, v_v, my misunderstanding.

Good morning 2harts4ever.

I saw elsewhere yesterday that some people were having problems with the the Mail and Calendar app on Windows 10 yesterday not syncing.  Whatever the problem was, they reported that it is working now.  However, I don't believe that is what you meant -- rather you were using IE11.  There should be no difference accessing your Outlook.com email via IE11 on Windows 10 than on Windows 7 or 8.1.  Try using https://mail.live.com instead of the saved link and see what happens. 

Although I don't personally care for the Windows 10 mail app, also give that a try. 
  • Click the Windows icon > Click All apps. 
  • Tip: Instead of scrolling down to "M" for mail, click any one of the alphabetic letters. When displayed, click the letter M.  Mail will be the first choice.  (To pin it to Start, right-click Mail and select Pin to Start)
  • If you signed in to your Windows 10 computer with a Microsoft Account (Outlook.com, Hotmail, MSN, and Live), that account is automatically added to the Mail and Calendar apps.  (See Set up your account in Mail for Windows 10 - Outlook and Use Mail for Windows 10 - Outlook)
Quote
As of right now I can't utilize any of the forum items like Bold, Underline, quote, etc.  Any ideas?
If you are using the "Quick Reply" box, you need to click "Preview" to see the BBCode icons.  The other option is to click the bold "REPLY" link rather than using "Quick Reply". 


Take a walk through the "Security Garden" -- Where Everything is Coming up Roses!

Remember - A day without laughter is a day wasted.
May the wind sing to you and the sun rise in your heart.

Offline Digerati

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Re: McAfee vs Windows Defender and Windows Firewall?
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2015, 01:33:46 PM »
Quote
Are there any settings I need to change in Windows Firewall that I should be aware of as I begin using it?
No. Some on-line multi-player Internet games may require it, or if you need to give someone out there on the Internet specific remote control access to your computer you may need to create a specific rule to allow them access. But if you just surf the net, use email, chat, do on-line shopping, on-line banking, normal work and school projects, YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, etc., the default settings in WF are just fine.

Quote
When I used it, it was called Microsoft Antispyware
I don't think it was ever "officially" named that - except in Beta. That is, when Microsoft first bought Giant Antispyware, they immediately put it in "Beta" while they worked on "rebranding" it as a Microsoft product. But as soon as the code was finalized and it was released to the public, it got its official name of "Windows Defender".

Windows AntiSpyware becomes Windows Defender
Quote
Microsoft will also release Windows Defender for XP users. It will be released as an update to the current edition of Windows AntiSpyware, which has been available in a beta version since January.
Bill (AFE7Ret)
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Offline v_v

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Re: McAfee vs Windows Defender and Windows Firewall?
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2015, 05:23:33 PM »
Bill,

You are most likely correct about the Microsoft AntiSpyware probably being in beta during 2005.  I just remember that there seemed to have been an MSAS folder set up on my computer during that time.  I went back through some old posts at Freedomlist during 2005 and myself and others were definitely calling it Microsoft AntiSpyware without the beta.  But maybe it was beta all along.  I just remember that I was sad when finally one of its successor updates Windows Defender 1.1.1347 would no longer operate on my Windows 2000 machine as of 12-31-06.  Up to that point it had worked just fine!  Sigh.
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Offline Digerati

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Re: McAfee vs Windows Defender and Windows Firewall?
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2015, 05:57:05 PM »
Quote
I went back through some old posts at Freedomlist during 2005 and myself and others were definitely calling it Microsoft AntiSpyware without the beta.
No doubt I called it Microsoft AntiSpyware too. I get stuck in a groove and stay there - even for years. For example, it was many years ago when Microsoft renamed that area in the lower right of our screens to "Notification Area" yet I still call it "System Tray".

Or then there is File Manager in DOS and real early versions of Windows that was renamed to Windows Explorer (I am certain, to confuse folks with Internet Explorer ;)). Not sure people realize that it was been renamed again in W10 and is now called File Explore. This is the program used when you click on My Computer... err, I mean Computer to view your Directory Tree... err, I mean Folders.

It does not help when MS creates such confusion in their attempt to make things easier. Like the fact there is Outlook, Outlook Express and Outlook.com and they are all different programs.
Bill (AFE7Ret)
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Offline 2harts4ever

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Re: McAfee vs Windows Defender and Windows Firewall?
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2015, 06:56:23 PM »
@Digerati:  Thanks for your opinion on me using the default Windows Firewall settings.

@ Corrine:  Your new mail link worked!

Thanks and regards,
2harts4ever
" ... Nuff Said.  Keep Smiling Because I'm Smiling Too ..."

Offline Corrine

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Re: McAfee vs Windows Defender and Windows Firewall?
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2015, 07:39:02 PM »
Excellent!  I doubt your account has been moved to a different mail server so you may want to try the bookmarked URL again.  If it doesn't work, after logging in via  https://mail.live.com, create a new bookmark.


Take a walk through the "Security Garden" -- Where Everything is Coming up Roses!

Remember - A day without laughter is a day wasted.
May the wind sing to you and the sun rise in your heart.