Author Topic: WinPatrol Firewall Question  (Read 6811 times)

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Offline Nothingness

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WinPatrol Firewall Question
« on: November 08, 2017, 09:56:01 PM »
I have installed the WinPatrol Firewall. Do I need to close the Windows Firewall in Win7?
If not closed, will the two conflict?  Thank you every one.

Online Corrine

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Re: WinPatrol Firewall Question
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2017, 11:48:56 AM »
Hi, Nothingness.

WinPatrol Firewall was originally WinPatrol Privacy.  I am not using the WinPatrol Firewall but when I was testing the beta, I kept the Windows Firewall on.  With a quick look at the WinPrivacy Documentation – WinPatrol (with links to the documentation pages for the different tabs), I didn't see anything about not using another software firewall.

 


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Offline Digerati

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Re: WinPatrol Firewall Question
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2017, 01:24:45 PM »
There is not a consensus on this.

Comodo, for example, says,
Quote
Will running two firewalls together be better than one? No, it will not be safer or better for you to run two firewalls together.
 
 In fact, it will be worse. You should never run two firewalls together as they will probably conflict, and cause system errors that will not normally happen if you run either of the firewalls separately.

Microsoft, on the other hand, says,
Quote
You should always run Windows Firewall even if you have another firewall turned on.

At the same time, some at Microsoft say, their bold and bold underline,
Quote
You only need one firewall app on your PC (in addition to the firewall that's probably built into your network router). Having more than one firewall app on your PC can cause conflicts and problems.

I go by the philosophy you only "need" one "software" based firewall at a time because, if for no other reason, two will not protect you better than one. Unlike other security programs, all firewalls work the same way; they enable or disable access through ports. Having two programs do the same thing is, if nothing else, a waste of resources, IMO. But I also feel if one FW allows access through a port but the port is disabled by another FW, that might cause conflicts.

Frankly, Windows own built in firewall, Window Firewall, is completely capable of doing its job so the fact is, you don't need a 3rd party firewall. But if you just prefer using an alternative, I recommend you disable Windows Firewall. Instructions can be found here.
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Re: WinPatrol Firewall Question
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2017, 01:59:19 PM »
The question remains in my mind:  Is the former WinPrivacy a true firewall?  The documentation has my head spinning.


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Offline Digerati

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Re: WinPatrol Firewall Question
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2017, 02:30:01 PM »
Good point. I guess he could use Steve Gibson's Shield's UP!! to test. 
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Re: WinPatrol Firewall Question
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2017, 02:46:33 PM »
Good suggestion!  I forgot about Shield's Up!  No idea when it was last updated (or needed to be updated) but certainly worth trying with the Windows Firewall turned off.


Take a walk through the "Security Garden" -- Where Everything is Coming up Roses!

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Offline Pete!

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Re: WinPatrol Firewall Question
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2017, 04:04:20 PM »
The question remains in my mind:  Is the former WinPrivacy a true firewall?  The documentation has my head spinning.
I recall discussion indicating that it was NOT the same kind of firewall that we're become accustomed to calling a firewall. At the time I thought it was a rather misleading choice of a name/description, but since it didn't affect me, I had no reason to argue about it.

BTW: Both "ESET Smart Security Premium", and the McAfee suite provided by my ISP, claimed to be "managing" the Windows firewall. If I open the Windows Defender Firewall controls, there is a statement to that effect..... When I was using the ZoneAlarm firewall, the Windows firewall turned itself off.

Offline satrow

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Re: WinPatrol Firewall Question
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2017, 04:20:18 PM »
Sheild's up only tests inbound, WPF's main selling points seem to be that it can easily block outgoing plus known malware and privacy threats (I hope those definitions are frequently updated).

Outside of a few overly aggressive or BSOD -prone firewalls (which I wouldn't advocate using), I've found it better to keep the default firewall running when using a 3rd party firewall. Some modern firewalls make a point of mentioning that they're fine to use with the default firewall enabled. or that they work with it, as @Pete just pointed out.

The biggest problem I see from some 3rd party firewalls with the default firewall disabled is that on program/online game installation, there's no dialog from Windows asking which network you want to allow it access to... non-mainstream software needs access to the default firewall to open the correct ports (once enabled and rebooted, simply starting up the software, or, in rare cases reinstalling it, results in the firewall options dialog to popup as expected).

Offline Digerati

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Re: WinPatrol Firewall Question
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2017, 04:53:17 PM »
Quote from: Corrine
No idea when it was last updated (or needed to be updated)

It looks like some changes were made in 2016. Since firewall technologies and requirements have not changed in many many years, I am assuming it is still current and applicable.

Quote from: Pete!
When I was using the ZoneAlarm firewall, the Windows firewall turned itself off.
That is how I thought it worked but when looking around before posting my last reply, I could not find where Windows Firewall still behaved that way.

Quote
I thought it was a rather misleading choice of a name/description
I still agree with that. While technically, "firewall" is not wrong, when I think of a computer firewall, I think of blocking or allowing "network access" via port control. This program does more than that. I am not saying that is bad, however. In fact, it is probably common these days for aftermarket firewalls to do more so they can distinguish themselves from Windows Firewall and their other aftermarket competition.

Quote from: satrow
Sheild's up only tests inbound, WPF's main selling points seem to be that it can easily block outgoing plus known malware and privacy threats
Not sure that is true as it checks all ports. I don't think it just checks for inbound requests. That said, even if inbound only the need to block unauthorized outgoing attempts has always been an over-hyped fallacy - started, I believe, by ZoneAlarm many years ago. As XP's firewall blocked inbound only, ZoneAlarm's "marketing strategy" was to make users feel unsafe by claiming ZA blocked outbound too. And since it was "in" to bash Microsoft for security, others picked up on it.

But it assumed (and mis-believed) the malicious code easily somehow was able to sneak pass the incoming firewall, router's security, and the entire security defenses of the security apps running on the computer. That was a pretty farfetched assumption unless the user (always the weakest link in security) - let the bad guy in. Back then, it was not uncommon for users to be running AVG, Spybot S&D, Adaware, SAS, and more - as well as a software based firewall, and a router too. But somehow malicious code could sneak by it all? And just by blocking outbound too you would be safe? No.
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Offline Pete!

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Re: WinPatrol Firewall Question
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2017, 08:30:46 PM »
Quote from: Pete!
When I was using the ZoneAlarm firewall, the Windows firewall turned itself off.
That is how I thought it worked but when looking around before posting my last reply, I could not find where Windows Firewall still behaved that way.
Disclaimer: That was a while ago.
I was having some occasional "netio.sys" crashes that appeared to be related to ZoneAlarm.

 I uninstalled ZoneAlarm sometime around August 2015. It's possible that I was still using Windows 8.1, when I observed the behavior I described related to ZoneAlarm.

OT: The crashes stopped.

Offline Nothingness

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Re: WinPatrol Firewall Question
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2017, 01:39:07 PM »
I didn't think there were so many masters to answer the question. I have learned a lot from it.Thank you every one.

Offline techie

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Re: WinPatrol Firewall Question
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2017, 03:31:49 PM »
I prefer GlassWire as a third party monitoring firewall.  It works well with the Windows Firewall. The visual aspects of the software makes it easy to see what is going on. There is a free or paid version.

https://www.glasswire.com/

Offline Digerati

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Re: WinPatrol Firewall Question
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2017, 05:03:18 PM »
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It works well with the Windows Firewall.
I see no reason at all for two software based firewalls. Enabling or disabling access through ports does not require any special, advanced or unique technique. So one or the other is just fine. But since Windows Firewall is already in there, I see no reason to waste disk space or system resources on a second.

If you want a second firewall, get a router that supports a hardware based firewall in the router.
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Offline satrow

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Re: WinPatrol Firewall Question
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2017, 01:54:01 AM »
3rd party firewalls aren't only about controlling access to ports, they can also easily block/unblock programs/apps and even Services.

Most cost way less (I use a free one) than buying another router.

They can also be used away from base.

Offline Digerati

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Re: WinPatrol Firewall Question
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2017, 01:43:39 PM »
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3rd party firewalls aren't only about controlling access to ports, they can also easily block/unblock programs/apps and even Services.
??? Huh?

FTR, it is simple to create a rule in Windows Firewall to "block/unblock programs/apps and even services" too. You can even set up separate profiles for when you (or specific users of your computer) are connected to your private network, corporate domain, or public network. You can have separate rules for inbound or outbound processes. So if you are "away from base", no problem!

IMO, 3rd party apps designed to replace many native Windows apps typically have extra features thrown in that make them even more unnecessary, and a further waste of space and resources. That is, with the vast majority of Windows native tools and utilities, they already are more than adequate for the vast majority of users. These tools include Windows Firewall, Windows Defender, Snipping Tool, Calculator, Disk Optimize (defragger), even Disk Cleanup (though I admit I use CCleaner).

It is the same old story as used by countless of other programs. The basic tools found in Windows or other "basic" utilities are more than adequate. So those 3rd party programs come packed with all sorts of bloat and other extras (fluff) we just don't need so they can differentiate themselves from the competition. Their marketing people then hype up their claims about how much more their program does over another - even though no more is needed.

Lastly, most (if not all) routers sold over the past several years (even budget ones) already include SPI firewall protection. If you already have a fairly current router, you most likely don't need to buy a new one.
Bill (AFE7Ret)
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