LandzDown Forum

Software & More => Computer Problems, Questions and Solutions! => Topic started by: plodr on March 27, 2020, 07:08:40 PM

Title: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: plodr on March 27, 2020, 07:08:40 PM
I can't get Palemoon to play some YouTube videos. I want to see if the fault is all 4 Windows 7 computers in our home or actually that Palemoon can't handle some html5. (I can fire up Vivldi or Firefox and have no problem but I'd like to get Palemoon working.)

I've been posting on the Palemoon forum and first he blamed an addon. I fired up Palemoon in safemode with no addons and I created a new profile. In both cases I see the same error. Now he is blaming it on a plugin VLC Web Plugin. Since a plugin is impossible to remove (it can probably be removed but it might break things), I did the next best thing and disabled it. And still the same error shows.

This is the video, a free movie on YouTube with ads
Code: [Select]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbY5a71f4-U
Post Yes, if the video starts.
Post No if you see the following error "Your browser currently does not recognize any of the formats currently available. Click to visit our frequently asked questions about HTML5 video". When I click to get to HTML5, I get this - which is no help at all.
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: DR M on March 27, 2020, 07:26:18 PM
I'm getting this:

Video unavailable
The uploader has not made this video available in your country.

You can also try Solution 2 here: https://appuals.com/fix-your-browser-does-not-currently-recognize-any-of-the-video-formats-available/
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: Digerati on March 27, 2020, 07:56:04 PM
I get the same error as you, Liz. It works fine in Edge. And in FF, it works, but it plays a couple ads first. So it seems in PM, it is choking on those ads.
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: ky331 on March 27, 2020, 07:58:47 PM
I'm likewise getting the error "Your browser currently does not recognize any of the formats currently available. Click to visit our frequently asked questions about HTML5 video" in PaleMoon [and its "clone", MyPal].

The video plays in Edge and Firefox.
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: Corrine on March 27, 2020, 08:21:48 PM
No. 

Same error with Pale Moon on Windows 10.

Edit Note:  BTW, I don't have the VLC Plugin installed and Flash is set to always ask. 
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: hayc59 on March 28, 2020, 04:42:30 AM
Your browser currently does not recognize any of the formats currently available.
his is what I get also,which is strange because I can play all you tubes
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: Frands on March 28, 2020, 08:21:01 AM
I got this message:
Video unavailable
The uploader has not made this video available in your country.


The reason could also be that Youtube and other streaming sites, has lowered the quality at their sites. This because they want to keep their sites running these days.
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: plodr on March 28, 2020, 01:38:07 PM
Thanks to all who tested this for me. If some in the US are getting the same error as me, it is as I suspect, Palemoon can't handle every video format and it has nothing to do with a) no flash on any of my computers b) the addons I've installed c) the plugin I have.
I saw old threads with people complaining Palemoon was unable to play html5. I figured it was a waste of everyone's time to look at threads from a few years ago because things change both on the internet and within browsers.

Moonchild won't ever admit that something in his browser is lacking. - the ability to play html5.  At least I now know I can't fix it. I'll fire up Firefox or Vivaldi which can play that video with no problem.

I'll add to my thread at the Palemoon forum that others tested it, that don't have the VLC plugin installed and see the same error as me. Then end by saying, I'll use a different browser if Palemoon fails to play a video. Also that I'm finished trying to fix this issue.

Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: Digerati on March 28, 2020, 02:45:11 PM
Quote
If some in the US are getting the same error as me, it is as I suspect, Palemoon can't handle every video format and it has nothing to do with a) no flash on any of my computers b) the addons I've installed c) the plugin I have.
I don't see what the user's location in the world has to do with this.

I also am not sure it is fair to single-out Palemoon as being unable to play "every" video format. That is, do we know for a fact that Chrome, FF, Edge, or [fill in the blank] can play "every" video format out there? But clearly, PM cannot play those formats when (at least IMO) it should - or at least give a more descriptive error message.

I also know for certain that I am NOT going to enable Flash just to view that content. I mean if Microsoft has Edge set to "Always block Flash (recommended)" set by default, that should be clear enough warning to keep Flash content blocked.

I just checked out your thread at the PM forums and was disappointed in the "tone" and some of the comments in the replies you got from the staff there. Pretty sad.

As far as refusing to play DRM content, there may be something to that - but as I noted, for me it seems to be choking on the ads that play (or try to play) before the movie. In any case, it seems to me if the admin and/or moderator staff had tried your link before posting to see if they had the same issue, then determined the cause, they could have provided a logical explanation without their tone of intolerance for anyone with less experience.
 and understanding of the inner workings of PM than them. :(
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: ky331 on March 28, 2020, 02:51:56 PM
Flash is not the problem... I *do* have Flash [and Silverlight] active in PM, but I get the " does not recognize any of the formats " message for the video in question even so.
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: ky331 on March 28, 2020, 03:10:46 PM
I'd also like to say that, having just read your post in the PM forum, the "tone" of responses by moonchild and tobin are unacceptable :-(

As for DRM, "Pale Moon is based on much older code. It won’t have the new web features or performance improvements of modern versions of Firefox, nor does it support watching certain kinds of video with DRM". 
(source:  https://www.howtogeek.com/335712/update-why-you-shouldnt-use-waterfox-pale-moon-or-basilisk/ which I realize was written in February, 2018)
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: Digerati on March 28, 2020, 03:16:33 PM
I understand Flash is not the problem. I was just commenting on that because it was mentioned earlier.

As seen in the thread here (https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24076), it turns out it is due to DRM. But the staff did not verify or conclude that until well after plodr expressed her concerns. And even then (as you noted while I was typing this reply) when the mod came in to state it was due to DRM, he did so with a totally unnecessary, if not totally rude attitude. :(
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: Frands on March 28, 2020, 05:26:50 PM
Is Youtube very slow where you are? It has been very slow here the last past 3 weeks.
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: Digerati on March 28, 2020, 05:35:35 PM
I would not know. I don't watch it regularly. And not sure what you mean by "slow" anyway. If the video or movie plays at normal speed and not "slow motion" (which would be impossible with digital video) then it is normal. I connect fine, the video cues up fine, and I get no "buffering" is about all I can say.
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: Frands on March 28, 2020, 05:45:18 PM
What I meant was if the Youtube site is loading slow.
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: Digerati on March 28, 2020, 05:56:59 PM
I just tried a couple again and having no problems here.
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: Frands on March 28, 2020, 05:59:02 PM
Ok! Thanks. :) I was just thinking if it is a problem as well.
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: Pete! on March 28, 2020, 06:25:41 PM
Is Youtube very slow where you are? It has been very slow here the last past 3 weeks.
There are reports of too much bandwidth usage in the NY metropolitan area including northeastern NJ, since the "stay home" orders.

I didn't notice anything until early yesterday morning when I was streaming TV news.  The picture kept breaking up and/or buffering. I tried a different station using a different app, with similar results.

At that time of day, the content of the news station I was attempting to view is essentially the same as their local broadcast/cable affiliate, so I ended up switching HDMI ports and using the cable box. 

If it's affecting the other streaming services, I imaging it's affecting YouTube.
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: Digerati on March 28, 2020, 06:36:45 PM
Is Youtube very slow where you are? It has been very slow here the last past 3 weeks.
There are reports of too much bandwidth usage in the NY metropolitan area including northeastern NJ, since the "stay home" orders.

If it's affecting the other streaming services, I imaging it's affecting YouTube.
Good point though I suspect it is happening all over and not just NYC. It could be bandwidth or just servers getting hit with an abnormal number of requests - or more likely, a combination of both.
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: plodr on March 29, 2020, 12:22:06 PM
I really hesitated posting at the Palemoon forum, due to the fact that Moonchild is extremely arrogant. He just keeps proving my point with his responses.
I'm not about to revisit that thread to read his unhelpful remarks.

Moonchild kept pointing the finger at my addons then my plugins. He could have saved us both time by posting the DRM issue at the start of the thread. (I'm sure he was aware of the issue; why did he not mention it until he had me jump through hoops?) I thought perhaps I caused the problem when I removed flash from all four Windows 7 computers last year. (Since Adobe is ending flash in Dec. 2020 and flash needs to be patched, I figured, remove it now and use html5.)

As I said, I will fire up Vivaldi or Firefox when I stumble across any video that YouTube refuses to play. I can also fire up my android tablet and see it on there.

YouTube has been slow for me since January. I always see "if playback doesn't begin shortly,..." When I updated PM to 28.9, that problem was gone but I had other issues. Now running 28.9.0.2 it is back to being slow to start.

Thanks again to everyone here who tried it and reported what happened. I probably should have done that at the outset and skipped the Palemoon forum. People here are helpful, not rude.
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: Digerati on March 29, 2020, 02:04:56 PM
Quote
He could have saved us both time by posting the DRM issue at the start of the thread. (I'm sure he was aware of the issue; why did he not mention it until he had me jump through hoops?)
In his defense - well, not "defense" but as a possible explanation for him not mentioning it right away; he might not have realized this was a DRM issue. I say that only because there was never any mention that your video was a "movie" and thus perhaps copyrighted and protected by DRM. 

In fact the word "movie" doesn't show up in that thread until the very last post. That is NOT however, an excuse or defense of the behavior demonstrated or the "tone" of the replies you received from the staff there. I am just saying DRM might not have occurred to him until someone else mentioned it later in the thread.

FTR, PaleMoon was my preferred and default browser for many years - I think I started using it around 2010. I probably saw Corrine mention it somewhere! IE had been my default, but it seemed more and more sites were moving towards W3C standards and away from IE/MS standards. Plus it seemed MS was already beginning to abandon IE. It stopped working right.

I really liked PM, but I was never truly happy with it. Little issues kept bugging me. When W10 came out with the original Edge, I gave it a try. But that clearly was an unfinished, underdeveloped, flawed product right out of the gate. I maybe gave it 30 minutes before moving back to PM.

Fast forward to 2019 and I was becoming more and more disappointed with PM due to various site rendering problems. For example, I could never view my water/sewer/trash bill with PM because the webpage would never, and still will not load in PM. But it loads fine with every other browser.

This is a public utilities company for the largest metro area in Nebraska. I contacted them and they said they only support the major, "standards compliant" browsers like FF, IE, Chrome, and Safari. Not sure IE would be considered "standards compliant" but that's not really the point. The point is, every month to view my bill so I could pay it, I had to remember to call up a different browser. Chrome worked fine so I used that.

I was having problems with other sites too, including forums I visit daily. So when the "new", Chromium-based Edge came out, I gave it a try and soon discovered I had no problems viewing any site I went to, I switched to Edge as my default. At first, I figured it would be just for a short test/evaluation period. But it didn't take long to realize Edge was working better (at least for me) than PM did. So Edge is now my default. I don't miss PM.

I know there are many who refuse to give Edge a fair shot because it has the Microsoft brand on it. But that is a biased viewpoint. Folks need to set aside their prejudices and give it a fair shot. Microsoft is NOT the same company it used to be. Edge is NOT IE. Today's Edge is not even the same Edge that originally came with W10!

I am not suggesting everyone switch to Edge. I am just saying if not totally happy with your current browser, forget the brand behind it and give the "new" Edge a fair shot.

Eventually, it will be pushed out to all W10 users so if using W10, you may already have it. The latest version is Version  80.0.361.69. If you don't have it yet (or you are still using W7/W8.x) you can download it from here (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/edge).
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: ky331 on March 29, 2020, 02:23:56 PM
I have been using Edge --- first, a "recent" version of "regular" Edge; and now, Edge Chromium --- and I'll say it's working really well for me.   It opens up MUCH faster than my other browsers (FF is especially slow to open) --- at least on my systems --- and I've been customizing its FAVORITES bar to meet my daily needs.

For extensions, I've added uBlock Origin, and HTTPS Everywhere.
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: Digerati on March 29, 2020, 02:44:32 PM
Speaking of extensions, one thing nice about the new Edge is there is just one programming model for extensions for both the new Chromium-based Edge and Google Chrome. So extensions made for Chrome work in Edge too.

So if you see anyone claiming it does not have good extension support, they clearly have not done their homework or bothered to give Edge any sort of fair chance.
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: satrow on March 29, 2020, 02:47:17 PM
(I'm sure he was aware of the issue; why did he not mention it until he had me jump through hoops?)

Perhaps he didn't feel he had the immediate time to set up a working US/CA VPN (not all 'American' VPN's are allowed access, as I discovered) and test it for himself?
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: Corrine on March 29, 2020, 02:56:58 PM
FTR, PaleMoon was my preferred and default browser for many years - I think I started using it around 2010. I probably saw Corrine mention it somewhere! IE had been my default, but it seemed more and more sites were moving towards W3C standards and away from IE/MS standards. Plus it seemed MS was already beginning to abandon IE. It stopped working right.

A quick search showed that the earliest mention of Pale Moon here at LzD was in March, 2014.  In fact, that was when I switched to it:  Pale Moon Browser (https://securitygarden.blogspot.com/2014/03/pale-moon-browser.html). 
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: Digerati on March 29, 2020, 03:08:48 PM
A quick search showed that the earliest mention of Pale Moon here at LzD was in March, 2014.  In fact, that was when I switched to it:  Pale Moon Browser (https://securitygarden.blogspot.com/2014/03/pale-moon-browser.html).
Yeah, that was just a guess based on the Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_Moon_%28web_browser%29) article that says PM came out in Oct 2009. It might have been your SG blog in 2014 when I first started using it. It just seems longer than that. "I'm not into time, Man!" ;)

Quote from: satrow
Perhaps he didn't feel he had the immediate time to set up a working US/CA VPN (not all 'American' VPN's are allowed access, as I discovered) and test it for himself?
I supposed that is possible but I would think since so many PM users live in the US, such a test platform would already be set up.
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: satrow on March 29, 2020, 04:19:18 PM
... since so many PM users live in the US, such a test platform would already be set up.

Any US/CA-based helpers on the PM site wouldn't require a VPN, Tobin's US and he made the call on DRM, presumably after eventually running a quick check.
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: Digerati on March 29, 2020, 05:20:07 PM
Quote
Any US/CA-based helpers on the PM site wouldn't require a VPN
I realize that. My comment was in response to you suggesting "he" (presuming you meant Moonchild) didn't set this up. My point is, that should not matter. He should have checked out the link plodr provided. If it didn't work, he would have seen it didn't work. If it worked, he would have seen it was a copyrighted movie and [hopefully] at that point realized it was a DRM issue.

Quote
Tobin's US and he made the call on DRM, presumably after eventually running a quick check.
Yes, after another poster suggested it. The "call" was likely a good one. The crass replies from both Moonchild and especially Tobin were not. plodr said nothing in her first 4 posts that caused her to deserve being told by the site admin/owner to "use your brain", for example. Prefacing an undeserved slap in the face with "kindly" does not make the slap less offensive.

Then Tobin, a site moderator, joining in with his derisive comments was no less offensive, IMO. The video played perfectly fine for me with Edge, Chrome, and FF - but not PM. I had no reason to suspect DRM either. Is every PM user supposed to automatically know PM does not support DRM when virtually every other popular browser does? There certainly is nothing on the Palemoon (https://www.palemoon.org/) homepage listing its limitation.

The error message says nothing about DRM. But it does clearly mention "HTML5". So did plodr's conclusion that PM can't handle HTML5 call for Tobin to join the thread to call her conclusion "Such bullshit"?

And again, if it is that obvious as Tobin implies, then it seems to me Moonchild should have immediately realized it too - IF only he tried the link in first place. For if he had, he would have immediately seen it was a movie.
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: satrow on March 29, 2020, 05:44:05 PM
Quote
Any US/CA-based helpers on the PM site wouldn't require a VPN
I realize that. My comment was in response to you suggesting "he" (presuming you meant Moonchild) didn't set this up. My point is, that should not matter. He should have checked out the link plodr provided.

He(yes Moonchild)'s based in SE.

Tobin's NOT a site or forum moderator.

PM's a web browser, it's never had DRM, not likely to either, for reasons linked to in that topic.

Seen similar topics elsewhere involving Edge when all that was required was triggering a WMP codecs download.

Nothing and no-one's perfect, esp. when times are difficult/hectic/repetitive/...

Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: Digerati on March 29, 2020, 06:15:54 PM
Quote
Tobin's NOT a site or forum moderator.
I don't know how they set their staff hierarchy up so may not be a "site" (as in "global") moderator. But he certainly is a moderator on the site. As seen on this page (https://forum.palemoon.org/index.php), he is the moderator for at least the Binary Outcast Projects and the Off-Topic forums.

Quote
PM's a web browser, it's never had DRM
I don't understand your point. Edge, FF, Chrome are web browsers. They support playing DRM content.

Quote
Nothing and no-one's perfect, esp. when times are difficult/hectic/repetitive/...
Ummm, I don't see where that plays here either. Difficult and hectic are not factors or excuses. If Liz had asked this same question repetitively, then maybe. But AFAIK, she hadn't. How many times do we see the same questions over and over? Enough for me to have a 60+ page Word document of "canned" texts responses. Plus a bad day may explain one staff members behavior, not both.
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: satrow on March 29, 2020, 07:19:17 PM
Binary Outcast = Tobin and he can only moderate his own area plus his 'special' Off-Topic playground.

Browsers with bloat like built-in pdf reading capabilities and DRM are relatively new. Google-backed browsers are allowed to use DRM, see this link (https://blog.samuelmaddock.com/posts/google-widevine-blocked-my-browser/) as an example of how the smaller browsers are treated.

"difficult/hectic/repetitive (times)" can be very big factors, esp. for people without decades of rigorous training in blocking out all factors except the orders of the day. Some people are different and we need to realise that and make 'some' allowances, stifling their personalities isn't likely to keep them all on track with what they're best at, and keep those people with special skills in specialised tasks.





Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: Digerati on March 29, 2020, 08:53:29 PM
Quote
Binary Outcast = Tobin and he can only moderate his own area plus his 'special' Off-Topic playground.
It doesn't matter. He's still a member of the staff there. Just because he can't moderate across the entire site does not mean it is okay to run roughshod over posters in the other forums.

The fact is, Liz was treated with undeserving disrespect with personal insults. That is simply wrong - especially from staff members.

As for DRM - that's irrelevant here too. It does not matter if PM supports DRM. What matters is (1) the error message gave no clue that it was a DRM issue, (2) there is nothing on the PM home page or readily accessible data saying that it does not support DRM, therefore it should not be expected to be common knowledge. And (3) and most importantly for this discussion here, those two members of the staff did not need to be so disrespectful. It was rude and uncalled for.

Make some allowances? I don't get why you keep making excuses for and are defending Tobin so vigorously. I guess he's a friend or something. That's fine. But he's pushing 8 years on that site with nearly 7,000 posts. He is not newbit. And he was selected by Moonchild to be a mod on that site despite you downplaying that role. And he joined that thread clearly to pounce on Liz - not to provide technical help in any manner. There was nothing right or just in how that was handled by them.

You can keep defending them. That's your right. But Liz was the one mistreated, not them.

Now I got a martini ready and need to fire up the grill. So I'm outta here. 
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: satrow on March 29, 2020, 09:06:11 PM
Moderate/mediate - do you understand either/both?

I'm defending no-one and everyone, I'll get my coat...
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: Digerati on March 30, 2020, 01:45:27 PM
Quote
Moderate/mediate - do you understand either/both?
:( Of course I do. And yet I see no mediating going on in that PM thread - at least not by those who are supposed to moderate.

Quote
I'm defending no-one and everyone
Right - and reading back through this thread, I must have missed where you expressed an understanding of plodr's position too.  ::) I missed where you said you understand why she felt there was a problem with PM playing some video files. And how you understood how the error message might lead one to believe the problem could be related to HTML5. Or why she might feel the staff there was being dismissive.

I guess I need more coffee this morning because reading through this thread again, I see where you excused Moonchild by saying he didn't have the time to test the issue before he told plodr to use her brain. I see where you excused Tobin because he is in the US and does not need a VPN. I see where you excused their behavior because things were "difficult/hectic/repetitive". I see where you excused Tobin because he is not a moderator of that specific forum. I see where you defended PM for not supporting built in pdf reading and DRM due to bloat. I just don't see any defense for Liz's position at all. But you say you defend "everyone" so it must be in there somewhere.

Oh well.

FTR, if Moonchild doesn't want to put DRM support in PM, that's fine. I'm really am perfectly okay with that. As you correctly noted, PM is a browser. It is not a media player. But since PM does support playing several other media formats, I think it would be good if they posted a list of media formats they do support, perhaps on their FAQ  (https://forum.palemoon.org/viewforum.php?f=24)page rather than assume all users should automatically know it doesn't support DRM files - so they don't feel compelled to belittle them when they don't. :( Perhaps you could ask your friends over there to do that? Just a thought.

I'm moving on.
 
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: satrow on March 30, 2020, 02:47:14 PM
I'm moving on.

Hopefully to a basic online reading comprehension course, good luck.
Title: Re: Need people running Palemoon
Post by: winchester73 on March 30, 2020, 03:24:54 PM
Looking at the PM forum, there are LOTS of new topics about video playing, perhaps that is a better place to continue a discussion.

I'm going to close this thread before it becomes as negative and disrepectful of us here at LzD as it is over there.

As a refresher, our forum rules can be found here:  https://www.landzdown.com/welcome-to-the-landzdown-forum/welcome-to-landzown-get-computer-help-here!/

Stay home. Stay safe. Save lives.