So...Can We Still Hang Out Here?

Started by raymac46, December 14, 2021, 08:53:01 PM

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raymac46

Now that SNF appears to be alive and kicking, I am still grateful to the Landzdown folks for giving us a place to hang out in case the worst happened. That said, I don't think a Linux forum is out of place here. Personally, I can commit to staying around and writing the odd article and answering any questions that arise in my area of expertise. If the Linux Forum stays, I will too. Let us know.

Corrine

As you can see, I've already renamed the Linux forums here so as not to detract from Scot's. 

We haven't had many people posting Linux issues here over the years.  When it has happened, I've referred them to Scot's.  However, if you and the others who came here after I created the forums don't neglect Scot's, then it is a win-win for Linux and we can certainly keep things going here.

Edit to add:  If there is something that is more directly explained at Scot's, don't hesitate to post a link there.


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raymac46

Scot's would be the place to get help in most cases. I see this forum as a place for more basic information - especially for Windows users who might wish to know more. We would obviously keep it friendly and non-condescending.

plodr

The more friendly and helpful sites people can find, the more people you will get to consider trying linux. So keep looking in here to see if there are any people interested.

As you know, most of the linux help sites are far from helpful! That turns people off and keeps the linux users low. It is still under 2%.
Chugging coffee and computing!

striker

My opinion is having two places to go for help or assistance with great expertise is not a bad thing, especially for new linux users or those who consider getting their feet into linux land.
Striker
still the same...

sunrat

Quote from: plodr on December 15, 2021, 01:19:01 PM
As you know, most of the linux help sites are far from helpful!
I don't believe that to be universally true. I'm a mod at Debian User Forums and we were aware there was a perception of negativity there and have actively worked to change that this year. The perception was rather overblown anyway as good questions would always receive good answers. The main problem there and in most forums is bad questions. Users would post something like "XYZ software is broken, why?" and expect respondents to be psychic. Getting info required to diagnose problems can be like getting blood from a stone!

plodr

It is the same at Windows forums.

Someone posts, my computer doesn't work and then lets you have to ask tons of questions to find out brand, model, version of Windows, and what to them is "doesn't work".

I absolutely refuse to even look at a post with one giant run-on sentence with zero punctuation, no line breaks and words either misspelled or abbreviated so anyone reading has to guess what the poster means.
Chugging coffee and computing!

raymac46

I know we can get frustrated with obscure questions and lack of info, but if we remember to treat everyone with respect that goes a long way. Bruno had the right idea; if someone is willing to go to the trouble of installing Linux, we should respect that.
Even giving an RTFM response can be done by linking to the appropriate Wiki page, or web article. Often new users cannot determine what info is outdated or current. We can help.

V.T. Eric Layton

I did NOT have any good experiences at the Debian User Forums back in 2006. It was a free-for-all H3LL hole, as far as I was concerned. I think it's good news that you Debian folks are making it a better place these days. I wish you all the best!

sunrat

Quote from: V.T. Eric Layton on December 19, 2021, 04:11:48 PM
I did NOT have any good experiences at the Debian User Forums back in 2006. It was a free-for-all H3LL hole, as far as I was concerned. I think it's good news that you Debian folks are making it a better place these days. I wish you all the best!
We now have unicorns, fluffy kittens, and rainbows at all times.  ;D

striker

Well, I remember back in my 'mod' time at Scot's there were many users chiming in for the first time asking simple and sometimes not so simple questions. They came there after a journey over other places where it often was the habit of throwing a rtfm to their heads and therefore to be let down in a most unfriendly way. That's not the way to attract new users and keep them interested to go the new (linux) route they opted for. We then welcomed those and tried to answer their inquiries, this many times led us to some sort of a bit of handholding or guiding them step by step for a long time, sometimes even during night hours. But hey, it was worth it. Because we all saw many of those people didn't leave but finally found a place where they and their questions be heard, and with a bit of help over time really got to the bottom of trying to understand the things they wanted to know. Many of those then new users are still around using their system with much pleasure, either at the aforementioned place of even here. And guess what, many of those users are now trying to help others with getting their feet wet in their journey into the land of linux. That's the way it should be. A little investment in those willing to learn.
Striker
still the same...

Hedon James

^ agree with everyone here.

there's nothing more frustrating than trying to learn something new; surfing google hits with inaccurate or just plain "bad" advice; then stumbling onto the "fine manual", only to find out the instructions are written in a language you don't understand, using even more terms & concepts you don't know, which starts another round of google surfing.  Rinse & repeat...  Many linux users are familiar with the term "dependency hell" when attempting to manually install an "unsupported package".  I submit that is very similar to the "google/forum hell" of a new user trying to find a correct answer.

"Read the Fine Manual"!  What a brilliant idea?!!!  Wish I'd thought of that before I humbled my stubborn self enough to say "I'm usually a very self-sufficient person, but I could really use some help and/or guidance here...."  That is NOT the time to bludgeon someone with the RTFM hammer of superiority.  Not if you want to keep them around and help them cultivate their skills.

A gentle nudge in the correct direction, even if it's a link to the Fine Manual, is a much better response than "RTFM".  That's what makes BATL (and now LD) such a special place.

raymac46

I remember when I first wanted to set up wifi for a desktop system in the basement of my house. This was well before SystemD or netctl. Network manager was in its infancy and as a wifi app it was a great Ethernet manager. Only WEP was supported.
Both striker and Bruno gave me a lot of hand-holding. They recommended the right hardware, got me to install wpa_supplicant, make a configuration file, figure out the command to get wifi working, and finally set up a boot command to get wifi going when the PC started. This was all a CLI exercise and you had to repeat it every time you reinstalled or upgraded your distro. Without this intensive help I would never have gotten wifi to work.
Wifi is a trivial exercise in Linux now, but it wasn't always the case.

V.T. Eric Layton

Quote from: sunrat on December 20, 2021, 05:15:15 AM
We now have unicorns, fluffy kittens, and rainbows at all times.  ;D

COOL! Can we get some hot cocoa, too?

plodr

Translation CLI means Command Line Interface
for anyone fairly young reading this, computers did not start out being point and click or now touch. You had to type commands into a kludgy interface to get things to happen.

Think of it like typing everything into a command prompt to get things working.
Chugging coffee and computing!