Hi Friends,
This is an extension of a topic/thread
(http://www.landzdown.com/index.php?topic=17962.0)
I posted a few months ago. So you may want to read it again, before making replies here, although warning -- it's long. And partly because it's so long, and partly because the problem has evolved, I'm started a new topic here.
So back then, I had suddenly been unable to download .exe files whenever I wanted. After many tries (~10) I could get one downloaded, but then it wouldn't open (or it would be corrupted). Please see the above mentioned thread for the long story. But the short version is that after much help from some wonderful LzD members, as well as MS Tech Support, we determined that there was some sort of problem with permissions, and that I wasn't getting admin permissions, even though it's an admin account. Both MS and LzD members agreed on this "diagnosis". But we weren't able to reset the permissions....or well, more precisely, we weren't able to solve the problem by resetting permissions. However, we found that a newly created admin account did not share the same problems. So everyone agreed that it would be best for me to just set up a new admin account, abandon this one (the original one) and delete it.
Because of some health issues, I still have not completely readied the new admin account, with all my personal settings and all. But I've been chipping away at it little by little. A week or so ago, I downloaded Funkytoad's Zoned Out, from the new admin account, for use in the new account. And last night I installed it, with not the slightest problem. I was happy :)
Today I've worked on getting my Security/Web Content Zones set up with all the many personalized settings I've been using for the Internet, Trusted and Restricted Zones. And having populated the Restricted Zone using Zoned Out last night, I set about to populate my Trusted Zone today, as well.
Now there's a side story here, where some LzD members have warned me about using the Trusted Zone, and suggested I not use it. And as I said in the original topic, I have taken that advice to heart, and do plan to make some changes in my security setup, and stop using the Trusted Zone. But partly because of my health, and partly because I'm learning all this stuff as I go -- I don't like to make too many changes all at once (because something always goes wrong, and if I've made several changes, I don't know which one is the culprit). So again I'll repeat that I DO plan to stop using the Trusted Zone. And as you read on, you'll see that it may well be time to do it now.
So I just now finished with the Custom Level settings for my 3 zones, in the new admin account, and then I put in all my Trusted Zone sites. Next I was going to open my new Zoned Out, to learn more about it, and make sure I had set it up right. And darned if I didn't get the EXACT SAME error message I've been getting in the old (original) admin account! (https://www.landzdown.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg210.imageshack.us%2Fimg210%2F5467%2Fanpoundfistsdp1.gif&hash=2ab94d457b578643c20b153c5e18e292850ce945)
(https://www.landzdown.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg238.imageshack.us%2Fimg238%2F3294%2Fomgkm9.gif&hash=12a29062e24120a07d6c854372052b27870eb259) Then I went online, and tried to download it again, AND GOT THE EXACT SAME ERROR MESSAGE about security settings not allowing the download. Even though a short week ago, I actually did download it successfully from the new account, and successfully installed it last night.
Well, while it may seem a bit odd that I've taken so long to get the new admin user account set up, one step at a time, now it appears to be a blessing! Because everything in the new admin account was working perfectly well last night. Yet after putting in all my Custom Level settings for all 3 Zones, and populating the Trusted Zone, I have the exact same problem as with the old (original) admin account, today. This can only mean ONE thing -- the problem lies either in the Custom Level settings, or the Trusted Zone Sites!
So here are my questions:
1 - Could there be some individual or combination of settings that is causing this problem? (Ironically this was my 1st suspicion, but I deferred to all your very knowledgeable professionals' thoughts.)
2 - Could it be one or more of the settings that are new to IE 7, since I had not had IE 7 for very long b4 this problem started?
3 - Is it possible to have too many sites in the Trusted Zone? I wouldn't think so, since the Restricted Zone has hundreds and hundreds of sites. Or could there possibly be some combined total (Trusted + Restricted) sites limit?
4 - It couldn't be any individual site that I have in my Trusted Zone, could it? I don't really see how, but then I'm certainly no expert.
At this point, to me, evidence is pointing to the Custom Level settings. By chance, would anyone be interested in using my settings in their own IE 7 and trying to download something? Or maybe I should contact someone familiar with "locking down IE" since that's basically what I've done with my settings?
Once more I'm asking for your kind support, for which I'm so very grateful :D
Thanks for your help!
Thanks for the detailed explanation of your problems. I'm wondering if you were to try Firefox (or Opera, etc) to see how they react.
Call me silly, but I've never touched any of IE's security settings. :thud:
There is no way, my dear, that I can figure all that out. ;) All I can suggest is that, as you know, there were no problems until you started with adding sites to the trusted zone/restricted zones. I do not allow any site in the trusted zone on my computer.
And, of course, I have to ask. Did you create a full system restore point before making any changes? As I learned many years ago, system restore only has room for so many restore points so will "cycle out" the oldest restore points as new ones are added. As a result, I have made it a practice to create a new restore point before making changes to my computer. For example, new software install, first I create a restore point called "BeforeXYZsoftware". Then I proceed. That way if even the uninstall doesn't work cleanly, I can restore my computer to the previous state, knowing it will be recent and a time when everything was working as I like it.
Thanks James and Corrine.
QuoteI'm wondering if you were to try Firefox (or Opera, etc) to see how they react.
React to what?
QuoteAll I can suggest is that, as you know, there were no problems until you started with adding sites to the trusted zone/restricted zones.
Actually, that is not true! I've been using Custom Level settings for both the Trusted and Restricted Zone for YEARS without the slightest problem. For the most part, the SAME settings. And I might add, no serious security problems. That's why it's been so hard for me to accept that they could be connected to this problem. In retrospect, it seems to me that IE 7 is the problem. Because I had only had IE 7 for a few weeks when this problem started.
I HAD recently added a couple of new sites to my Trusted Zone when this problem came up. That's why I was asking about a limit to the number of sites. But I don't remember changing any settings. I can see how there could be some combination and/or accumulation of circumstances which over time reach a sort of critical mass, when a problem shows up, though.
I just want to figure out what those circumstances might be. Is that such an unrealistic expectation? I mean, I could one by one, return each setting to its default. And check for the problem again, after each change, until I narrow it down to the exact settings. But it seems to me a little easier to talk to people who know what the settings mean, and get their comments. Because there are approx. 50 settings for each Zone!
Plus, they're there for a reason, aren't they? Why are there Security/Web Content Zones in the 1st place, if they aren't meant to be used? I'm sorry, call me stubborn, call me crazy. But abandoning IE, or just ignoring the Zones seems to me to be the easy way out...and not really a solution.
Oh yes, I do create new restore points before I make significant changes. You have taught me that! But in this case, I think we already know that a Restore will solve the problem. Because last night there were no problems, today the problem has returned, and the only changes I made were the Custom Level settings and the Trusted Zone sites. I could either use System Restore, or simply return the Zone settings to defaults. Either way, we know it will probably solve the problem.
But either way, I lose some measure of security. An acceptable solution should allow me to keep my security as it has worked well for several years. Is there truly no way to find an acceptable solution?
Quote from: Brynn on January 31, 2008, 04:51:04 AM
QuoteI'm wondering if you were to try Firefox (or Opera, etc) to see how they react.
React to what?
To the download issue you are experiencing. It would rule out whether it is an IE7 vs. a Windows problem at any rate. 8)
Quote from: Brynn on January 31, 2008, 04:51:04 AM
But either way, I lose some measure of security. An acceptable solution should allow me to keep my security as it has worked well for several years. Is there truly no way to find an acceptable solution?
Yes, follow the advise you have been offered by corrine. The nasties are evolving so quickly, that solutions that were good 6 months ago are now inadequate. I also believe the advice you were given in the past about using the trusted zone, were wrong!!. I would urge you to set IE7 back to default clear your trusted zone and use either a good hosts file or Spywareblaster for your restricted zone.
Sorry, I also meant to incude what change I found that prevents .exe from being download. Which is -
turning off the "IFrame" option ...
Quote from: MikeW on January 31, 2008, 11:20:15 AM
Quote from: Brynn on January 31, 2008, 04:51:04 AM
But either way, I lose some measure of security. An acceptable solution should allow me to keep my security as it has worked well for several years. Is there truly no way to find an acceptable solution?
Yes, follow the advise you have been offered by corrine. The nasties are evolving so quickly, that solutions that were good 6 months ago are now inadequate. I also believe the advice you were given in the past about using the trusted zone, were wrong!!. I would urge you to set IE7 back to default clear your trusted zone and use either a good hosts file or Spywareblaster for your restricted zone.
i agree with james & corrine about leaving well enough alone with the ie zone &/or security settings.
interesting, mikew iframe prevents .exe's from d'lding, how 'bout that!
and indeed trying an alternate browser (failing the above suggestions) would indeed isolate the issue to ie or not.
Quote from: Temmu on January 31, 2008, 10:41:19 PM
interesting, mikew iframe prevents .exe's from d'lding, how 'bout that!
Yes, I found with iframe set to prompt, when downloading a .exe you get the usual warning box that has to be confirmed.
But if set to disable (as suggested in a link on this forum) when trying to download .exe a message box is displayed that reports your security seetings do not allow this.
This is with XP Home SP2 and IE7
Thank you, Everyone.
I do appreciate your input, even if, in the end, we have to agree to disagree.
From those who think the Security/Web Content Zones should be left alone, except for the Restricted Zone, can you tell me what inspires your beliefs? Can you refer me to articles, or other written opinions on this (blogs, etc.)? Truly, I respect your opinions -- I just want to understand them!
Let me try this from another perspective. My use of the Trusted Zone primarily allows me to selectively block/unblock javascript and Active X, as well as unwanted downloads. Most of the other settings can be left on Disable, without affecting my use of the internet. I'm pretty sure my Spybot S&D would still protect me from downloads, were I to discontinue use of the Trusted Zone. But how would I protect myself from malicious Active X's and javascripts? I know most people who use IE don't bother with these Zones, but I don't understand how they stay safe.
James, I don't think it could be a problem with Windows, because the new admin account allowed downloads, until I changed the settings. And I'm fairly confident that were I to return the Zone settings back to default, I would again be able to download. I'm pretty sure I've narrowed down the problem to my Custom Level settings.
Mike W, the IFrame setting??? Interesting! You must know (you all must know) I'm going to try it.
Once again, thank you Everyone! I sincerely appreciate your comments, your help and support.
Mike W (https://www.landzdown.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg83.imageshack.us%2Fimg83%2F1114%2Fanyourockmy7.gif&hash=065a2cb597fec6fd5cee2c245262080db99cdb5c)
WOW! PROBLEM SOLVED!!
I guess I'll give it a few weeks, or maybe a few more downloads, just to be sure. But at this point, it looks like I'll be able to delete the NEW admin account, as I no longer need it. Changing the IFRAME setting does allow me to download and open .exe's.
Interesting though -- I changed the IFRAME setting from Disable to Prompt. However, when I clicked to download, I was NOT prompted. But the little download window (Open, Save, Cancel) was displayed anyway. And I've completed 2 sample downloads with successful installations. I'm not quite sure what to make of that, although I'm guessing no one else does either. But bottom line, problem solved!
I would still be interested to read any info anyone might provide about the risks involved in using the Zones in a non-default way, though. Because truly I respect your opinions....I just want to understand them.
Thanks again for everyone's help.
Brynn
(https://www.landzdown.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg455.imageshack.us%2Fimg455%2F3807%2Fancampoutsv0.gif&hash=8e3e0d0a290446a548f55df2121abbfeee8cb099)
Happy Camper!
Quote from: Brynn on February 03, 2008, 12:18:48 AM
Mike W (https://www.landzdown.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg83.imageshack.us%2Fimg83%2F1114%2Fanyourockmy7.gif&hash=065a2cb597fec6fd5cee2c245262080db99cdb5c)
WOW! PROBLEM SOLVED!!
However, when I clicked to download, I was NOT prompted. But the little download window (Open, Save, Cancel) was displayed anyway.
Brynn
(https://www.landzdown.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg455.imageshack.us%2Fimg455%2F3807%2Fancampoutsv0.gif&hash=8e3e0d0a290446a548f55df2121abbfeee8cb099)
Happy Camper!
That was the prompt I was refering to Brynn. Glad I was able to help solve your problem. Mike
Brynn,
Glad you got it sorted, learn something new every day :mitch:
Just a quick note about the Zones. One of the possible reasons people keep saying it's a bad idea is remember the Zones are just registry keys and values. All IE is doing is reading them and allowing actions/scripts based on the settings you choose (which again are stored in the registry). With it all stored in the registry, it's easily changed.
I can certainly see, since it's served you well beforehand, why you are hesistant (if thats the right choice of word) to change your security habits.
Just a thought.
Thanks, SpyDie :flowers: