Installed Pale Moon (http://www.palemoon.org/)
Installation smooth, asking if you want to import your data from IE. As I use FF, I said NO.
If you want to import your data from FF, you need to use the Pale Moon - Profile Migration Tool (http://www.palemoon.org/migrationtool.shtml), after the installation.....This works very well!!
Pale Moon is 95% Firefox with some "cosmetic" differences! The transfer of ALL data using the migration tool is complete. I have ended up with my Bookmarks Toolbar and my Password management, exactly as I had it set up in FF.
Note: In its default format, Pale Moon disables most of the FF add ons. You will need to enable them manually from the Add Ons section (same place as FF). The only one of my add ons that does not seem to work with Pale Moon is WOT. This, however, does not mater to me as I use DuckDuckGo as a browser.....and this browser has its own link to WOT, anyway (Check Settings of browser).
Pale Moon seems to be a lot less recourse hungry than Firefox.
In conclusion, this is now my default browser. I will still keep FF for a couple of weeks (just in case!!) and then, if all OK, I will be uninstalling it.
I had to do some maneuvering in order to use my FF profile on Pale Moon. The Migration Tool failed, timing out and resulting in about 1/3 of the file being copied. So, I manually copied the profile and then had to change the profiles.ini text file to open with that profile rather than the newly created Pale Moon profile. With that completed, setup is identical to what I have in Firefox.
Curiously, WOT is working fine. There is an indication in Add-ons Manager that "Add-on compatibility checking is disabled" yet there is another add-on that is shown as disabled because it isn't compatible with Pale Moon.
Another interesting thing to note is that the reason for evaluating FF alternates is because of the advertising to be added to the "new tab", yet, the blank start page for Pale Moon includes an ad, partial screen copy attached.
Quote from: Corrine on February 17, 2014, 08:16:51 PM
Curiously, WOT is working fine. There is an indication in Add-ons Manager that "Add-on compatibility checking is disabled" yet there is another add-on that is shown as disabled because it isn't compatible with Pale Moon.
Another interesting thing to note is that the reason for evaluating FF alternates is because of the advertising to be added to the "new tab", yet, the blank start page for Pale Moon includes an ad, partial screen copy attached.
Hmmm!!... :(
You are absolutely right. WOT is indeed working if one bothers to restart Pale Moon (which I didn't do!) It is now fine.... :oops:
As far as "Add-on compatibility checking is disabled" I do not have such an indication anywhere in Add-ons Manager. In fact, during installation, the compatibility of the add-ons was checked, in exactly the same way it gets checked when a new version of FF is installed. Very strange... :uhm:
I also do not have an advert on the blank start page...... :uhm:
I wonder why we have these differences.... Very confusing !
Sorry, I miss wrote the description of the page with the ad -- it was the default start page for Pale Moon after installing, not when opening a new tab. Since I managed to get my default profile, I don't see it now, of course.
Is it me or does Pale Moon use significantly less resources than Firefox? If so, why is that since I'm using the same add-ons?
Basil, if you use FB Purity, beware! Pale Moon seems to have a problem with FB Purity. I unchecked the disable box and it is still working. I haven't had any problems with FB Purity on Facebook. That would be a deal breaker since FB would be intolerable without FB Purity.
Hi all, I'm a long time Pale Moon user and Beta tester.
I really don't know all the ins and outs of the browser (especially from the Add-ons point of view, I rarely have more than a handful installed) but I know where to find out ;)
A browser for me needs to be transparent, fast and efficient - it mustn't get in the way or take up my time, and it should be logical and customizable. Pale Moon checks all those boxes for me, nothing is added just for the sake of change, it's done for security, ease of use, etc.
It's not just Firefox under another name, it is different; there are many things in Firefox that just don't apply to Pale Moon, they've been removed or were never added, as well as Pale Moon specific tweaks, etc. Each time a new version is released, there are further changes under the hood, compared to the equivalent Firefox build (it's currently based on the ESR 24 (Extended Service Release - 'corporate' version).
It's usually lighter on System resources and also faster as a result, some internal operations being much faster than Firefox. Others may not be any faster but they're usually more logical and conforming to more web standards, often safer, too.
I guess the key to switching over to Pale Moon is to start slowly and not to expect things to always work as they did in Firefox. Some things just don't work, they're often tailored specifically for Firefox. Thankfully, they're few and far between (and somewhere on the Pale Moon site/forum, I'm pretty sure there are lists of those that don't work and workarounds for those that need tweaking to get them to work).
One of the things you will need to watch out for is over-zealous security software, it's still classed as 'rare or unusual' by many heuristics (think guesswork) and can lead to odd things happening, silently being 'sandboxed', for example - perhaps related to your time out with the Profile Manager, Basil? I'll check with the Developer to see whether it's signed, I know the main browser is, that should bypass that issue in the future, if it was part of the problem.
There's also a rather neat Pale Moon Commander Add-on - options on steroids! - it also includes a Reset all Preferences button, as it's a pretty complex tool!
Quote from: Corrine on February 17, 2014, 11:14:47 PM
Is it me or does Pale Moon use significantly less resources than Firefox? If so, why is that since I'm using the same add-ons?
Definitely not just you, Corrine ! I noticed the same thing as well. To me, Pale Moon behaves like a FF that has been on a crush diet for a year... :hysterical:
Absolutely fantastic!
A very unscientific observation.When closing the FF browser, the little red light on the front face of my desktop, indicating that the processor is doing something, remains fully on or flickering, for
at least another minute. It feels like FF is struggling to shut down processes.
With Pale Moon, the shut-down is instantaneous. The instant the browser is closed, the red light goes off..... :goodie:
Corrine, I will check the F.B. Purity issue you mentioned and report back. You are absolutely right....this could be a game changer... :look:
Satrow,
Thank you for your comments... :thumbsup:
I am sure there are differences between Pale Moon and Firefox "under the hood". However, for me, Pale Moon seems to be doing everything a browser should be doing....and doing it very well.... :thumbsup:
Last night, I tried to register with the Pale Moon site/forum, but their system does not accept masked emails. Sorry..... but based on a
bad past experience in another forum, I never give out my real email address. As a result, I have given the forum a wide birth.... :(
Quote from: Corrine on February 18, 2014, 01:51:19 AM
Basil, if you use FB Purity, beware! Pale Moon seems to have a problem with FB Purity. I unchecked the disable box and it is still working. I haven't had any problems with FB Purity on Facebook. That would be a deal breaker since FB would be intolerable without FB Purity.
Hi Corrine,
Just checked...... and double checked the F.B. Purity/Pale Moon behaviour.
I have absolutely no problem here Corrine....everything works as it should. You are right...F.B. is indeed awful without Purity.
Quote from: Corrine on February 17, 2014, 08:16:51 PM
I had to do some maneuvering in order to use my FF profile on Pale Moon. The Migration Tool failed, timing out and resulting in about 1/3 of the file being copied. So, I manually copied the profile and then had to change the profiles.ini text file to open with that profile rather than the newly created Pale Moon profile. With that completed, setup is identical to what I have in Firefox.
I can't help wondering if the difficulty you have with Purity is, in any way, related to the above problem, Corrine.... :uhm:
Could either of you give some idea as to how much less in resources? Either by a percentage or actual numbers?
Thanks in advance.
Quote from: Corrine on February 18, 2014, 01:51:19 AM
Basil, if you use FB Purity, beware! Pale Moon seems to have a problem with FB Purity. I unchecked the disable box and it is still working. I haven't had any problems with FB Purity on Facebook. That would be a deal breaker since FB would be intolerable without FB Purity.
Well,....Here we go! After running with no problems, I suddenly got a similar warning to yours, Corrine, about Purity.
Also, looking at the add-ons manager, I now have a warning that the extension is "known to cause security/stability issues. This was not there this morning!
I have disabled the extension and FB is not usable!!!!!!!!
What does one do next?..... :thud:
Sorry, I wrongly attributed Corrine's profile migration problem to Basil.
Blues: resource usage differences are difficult to quantify without direct comparison with Firefox. What most users look at is memory usage - that can be anywhere from slightly more than FF to significantly less, depending on the website(s) and content loaded, length of browsing session - say +5 > - 20%. There can be similar differences in CPU usage, especially when Pale Moon makes better use of modern graphics cards to offload the donkey work more efficiently. CPU kernel usage (high kernel usage = lagging or 'sticky' mouse, System sluggishness, etc.) is sometimes significantly reduced in Pale Moon on heavy or poorly designed pages.
Basil: trust is a two way issue, Pale moon is developed by a single person, the same one that runs the forum, relaxing security for forum admissions would lead to a lot more work for him. He's very good with security issues, it's one of his strong suits and, if it means anything to you, he's the only person I don't know in RL that I've allowed remote access and full control of my PC to.
I'll take a look on the PM forum for FB Purity issues now.
Quote from: satrow on February 18, 2014, 04:41:17 PM
Basil: trust is a two way issue, Pale moon is developed by a single person, the same one that runs the forum, relaxing security for forum admissions would lead to a lot more work for him. He's very good with security issues, it's one of his strong suits and, if it means anything to you, he's the only person I don't know in RL that I've allowed remote access and full control of my PC to.
Satrow,
I am not questioning the guy's integrity, in any way. Computers, however, do get attacked/hacked ....even the ones that belong to experts... :o
Re FB Purity:
Jan 24th it was reported to be working as expected with Pale Moon: http://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3733
Feb 10th: it was reported that Sync wasn't working correctly, this was subsequently tracked back to Purity involvement and the warning was then added to the blocklist. This is marked as [WIP] - Work In Progress, so Moonchild, the Pale Moon developer, is actively looking into this issue, which might be resolved by the next Purity update/refresh anyway: http://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3842
Quote from: MoonchildI'm in touch with the add-on's dev to see if this sync issue can be solved. Marked WIP.
Thank you Satrow,
Very encouraging news... :goodie:
If you don't use Sync, could you not disregard the stability warning and enable Purity anyway?
Even if you decide not to join the PM forum, there's nothing to stop you using it as a read-only resource, even via a search engine query: search term here site:forum.palemoon.org for example (though the inbuilt PM forum search for purity looked very comprehensive and was listed most recent first).
Quote from: satrow on February 18, 2014, 04:41:17 PM
Blues: resource usage differences are difficult to quantify without direct comparison with Firefox. What most users look at is memory usage - that can be anywhere from slightly more than FF to significantly less, depending on the website(s) and content loaded, length of browsing session - say +5 > - 20%. There can be similar differences in CPU usage, especially when Pale Moon makes better use of modern graphics cards to offload the donkey work more efficiently. CPU kernel usage (high kernel usage = lagging or 'sticky' mouse, System sluggishness, etc.) is sometimes significantly reduced in Pale Moon on heavy or poorly designed pages.
Thank you, Satrow. Appreciate the input. :cool:
Quote from: satrow on February 18, 2014, 05:21:33 AM
One of the things you will need to watch out for is over-zealous security software, it's still classed as 'rare or unusual' by many heuristics (think guesswork) and can lead to odd things happening, silently being 'sandboxed', for example - perhaps related to your time out with the Profile Manager, Basil? I'll check with the Developer to see whether it's signed, I know the main browser is, that should bypass that issue in the future, if it was part of the problem.
There's also a rather neat Pale Moon Commander Add-on - options on steroids! - it also includes a Reset all Preferences button, as it's a pretty complex tool!
Quote from: satrow on February 18, 2014, 04:41:17 PM
Sorry, I wrongly attributed Corrine's profile migration problem to Basil.
Not to worry, it was probably the way I worded it. Anyway, I doubt it was a security software issue, using Windows 7 Ultimate with MSE, MBAM Pro and WinPatrol PLUS. In comparing the newly created Pale Moon profile with the copied FF profile, the Pale Moon Cache Folder is 13.6 MB (14,280,573 bytes), with 43 Files, 55 Folders. Since I have an old profile that I hadn't used in many, many years, I suspect that is what caused the problem. I probably should have deleted it long ago.
As to FB Purity, I've also been in contact with the developer since I had helped him with autoplay of videos on FB but obviously Moonchild is already on top of it.
"CPU kernel usage (high kernel usage = lagging or 'sticky' mouse, System sluggishness, etc.)" clearly describes the only frustration I've had with FF. It was particularly bad after the update to 27.0. The 27.0.1 update helped but wasn't a complete solution.
I looked at Pale Moon Commander yesterday since it was mentioned on the home page. However, the description scared me off:
QuoteThis is a configurator. Any changes made by this add-on are permanent even after removal of the add-on. You should use this with care!
Changing preferences you don't understand can break your browser. A basic manual is available on the add-on's home page but it remains more of a tweaker/expert tool than anything else, so it's suited for people who are willing to do a little research of their own about preferences or who are already familiar with Firefox settings.
Quote from: satrow on February 18, 2014, 05:41:01 PM
If you don't use Sync, could you not disregard the stability warning and enable Purity anyway?
That is what I did by unchecking the disable box.
(I registered at the forum.)
Corrine, I don't think MSE is likely to 'mess' with Pale Moon (although IE's 'Smart' Screen has been known to block its' download) and MBAM Pro and Winpatrol Plus are fine with it. The 'usual' culprits like Norton, Avast (though I know that could be worked around fairly easily), Kaspersky, etc are likely to try to 'sandbox' it silently - though this may be less likely to occur now that Pale Moon is digitally signed. It's the AV's heuristics and reputation -type 'features' that are likely to falsely trigger it. The usual sign of interference are Flash issues and general sluggishness - Flash uses it's own 'sandboxing' technique now, adding another plays havoc with it.
Yes, it does sound like the Profile migration tool tried to pick up the old FF profile; one problem new users sometimes have is because they still have PM or FF loaded during the attempted migration.
When it comes to CPU/GPU issues, I have a pretty good 'feel' for what's happening on my computers and (I think) I'm quite sensitive to small changes, as I would guess my fellow beta testers also are. Any performance regression noticed is fed back to Moonchild who can usually pinpoint, fix and recompile a new beta version for further testing within an hour or so if he's available, it's rare that a performance issue makes it to the release versions.
Applies to all Mozilla -based browsers:- With most Add-ons, Pale Moon Commander included, it's safest to undo any changes made by any Add-on before they're disabled or uninstalled, otherwise there's a high risk of some changes remaining active. A screenshot saved of about:support before any new Add-on is installed is a good way to keep track of any changes made. Upgrading a profile over a long period of time, especially if that period includes some major internal browser changes, is likely to end up buggy/corrupt at some point. Creating a fresh or test profile is quite straightforward (I must have ~6 profiles currently) and manual/selective importing of data from an older profile should only take about 10-15 minutes and is a great way to fix any profile corruption, etc and regain a fresh, fast browser with all needed extensions and Bookmarks.
But yes, like some anti -malware tools, PM Commander should be prescription only, it needs to be treated with respect, only change settings in the areas that you need to and understand.
Thank you, Andy! It never occurred to me to undo any changes made by an add-on prior to disabling/uninstalling.
How about this! After installing Pale Moon, I had started a discussion at Sysnative (http://www.sysnative.com/forums/web-browsers/8850-firefox-users-seeking-replacement-due-to-forthcoming-ads.html) wondering what others thought about the ads. Glaswegian commented that he has new tabs set to open to Google. After reading his comment, I thought about it and then realized he had probably edited about:config. It had not occurred to me to edit about:config to change the default action for a new tab so I tried it and it works great. Following are the steps I used to change the default from about:blank to a URL of choice:
- Type about:config in the address bar (confirm any warning)
- Search newtab
- Right-click browser.newtab.url and select Modify
- Change about:blank to the URL of choice (I used http://www.bing.com)
- Close about:config
Most of those are available by going to Tools > Options in Pale Moon, under the General and Tabs sections, Corrine. In Pale Moon, there are usually more options available than there are in FF.
Update from Moonchild and the FB Purity developer http://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3842:
Quote from: MoonchildLooks like a fix is in the making and to be released soon.
Quote from: FB Purity developer
I checked and found scriptify has been updated in the last few days, and the latest version generates extensions that dont interfere with Firefox sync. i've updated the xpi hosted at http://install.fbpurity.com (http://install.fbpurity.com) if any of your users want the fixed version, they should clear their browser cache and reinstall via that page.
Once a new version is released that fixes this issue, I'll update the blocklist to restrict warnings only to affected versions of the extension.
Quote from: satrow on February 19, 2014, 01:06:18 AM
Most of those are available by going to Tools > Options in Pale Moon, under the General and Tabs sections, Corrine. In Pale Moon, there are usually more options available than there are in FF.
Thanks. That is what I have Pale Moon set to do. The about:config change solves the FF problem for those who want to make the change there.
It is not only Corrine that had problems with the migration tool .
I have heard a couple of other people I know, had the same issue.
They both gave up!
Is there a problem with the migration tool.....It could be putting people off Pale Moon, if they don't know how to do it manually!... :(
From the download page for the Pale Moon profile migration tool:
QuotePale Moon profile migration tool
This tool will help you migrate a Mozilla Firefox profile to Pale Moon.
This tool may not work for everyone, since it has a few important limitations:
1. This tool only works for the default profile locations for Firefox and Pale Moon
2. This tool does not work for portable versions of either browser
3. This tool may not work well on limited accounts on Windows Vista.
It was put together mainly for people who have standard installations and as a convenient aid for people who do not have enough knowledge of the Windows O.S. and filesystem to manually copy the profiles over. It is not meant to be very versatile or flexible at this moment, but "gets the job done" in most cases.
Current version: 1.3.3 (2014-01-09)
This version update should solve any permission errors while copying, and addresses a problem with incorrect profile paths on non-admin accounts when elevating privileges.
Note: Please close both Firefox and Pale Moon before attempting to migrate your profiles. Not doing so may cause an incomplete transfer or give errors.
If this tool, for whatever reason, doesn't work for you, please check the Troubleshooting section (http://www.palemoon.org/troubleshooting.shtml#The_Pale_Moon_profile_migration_tool) on this site for instructions on how to manually copy over a profile.
This tool is provided to you as FREEWARE. Unlike the Pale Moon browser, this tool is not open source and the source will not be made available. © 2009-2014 M.C. Straver.
So, no, I don't think there are any known issues with the tool itself "for people who have standard installations" other than the few mentioned above. Obviously, should there be any corruption within the original Firefox profile - not so uncommon, especially if it's seen a large number of FF versions, and those which incorporated big changes - then there are likely to be issues importing it.
Troubleshooting section contents (manual profile migration instructions):
QuoteThe Pale Moon profile migration tool (for 3.6.6 or later) doesn't work
Since there are many different setups of Windows, it is always possible that the migration tool doesn't do its job properly. In that case, you will have to manually copy your user profile(s) to the proper location for Pale Moon 3.6.6 or later. You can also use this method to manually copy a Firefox profile to be used in Pale Moon (they are compatible). Close down the browser and do the following:
1. Find your old Pale Moon/Firefox profile folder. Usually:
On XP: C:\Documents and Settings\{your user name}\Application data\Mozilla\Firefox
On Vista/7: C:\users\{your user name}\Application data\Mozilla\Firefox
2. Copy everything in that folder (subfolders and profiles.ini) to Pale Moon's profile folder, overwriting what is there. If you have already run Pale Moon at least once, it will have created the folder structure already:
On XP: C:\Documents and Settings\{your user name}\Application data\Moonchild Productions\Pale Moon
On Vista/7: C:\users\{your user name}\Application data\Moonchild Productions\Pale Moon
Hi Satrow,
I am aware of these instructions, having carefully read them before downloading Pale Moon. Thankfully, the migration tool worked beautifully for me, and I never needed them... :thumbsup:
The point, however, I was trying to make in my previous posting (admittedly very badly... :(), is that, as most people are not so computer literate, they might, and some do find the instructions daunting to follow. I have had friends, on three occasions so far, where I recommended the browser, and they obviously needed to migrate their data manually. At this point, all three gave up. The feedback I got from them was......."I can't be bothered with that....I want something that works properly!.... :wub: (I have left the colourful words out..... :lol:)
I think this is a real pity, because although the browser is great, it is probably losing users, as many people are either unable, or unwilling to follow additional instructions that they consider too complicated.
Please don't get me wrong, as I do understand the complexity of the issue and the dilemma of the developer. All I am trying to do is highlight the feedback I got from friends....not so computer literate as some people in technical forums.... :uhm:
One of these three friends, although he has been using a computer longer than I have, he is really struggling...he still refers to the browser as "the internet"..... :hysterical:...and when I try and talk to him about computer issues, I just lose the will to live!!... :thud:
Remember when Mozilla changed the search function so that the "find bar" was no longer shared between tabs (version 25.0). As a result of that change, when searching for text on multiple tabs, it became necessary to open the find bar (Ctrl+F) on each tab. The Pale Moon developer recognized that change for the sake of change is nonsense and did not incorporate that change!
:look: Considering that this has turned into a discussion on Pale Moon, I've split it from the original discussion which can be found at Mozilla to deliver ads in its Firefox browser (http://www.landzdown.com/general-software-news-updates-discussions/mozilla-to-deliver-ads-in-its-firefox-browser/new/#new)
<edit: tag fixed by winchester73>
Hi, Corrine and Landzdown Forum! :mitch:
I have started using Pale Moon these days (well, I want to try different things and need some changes in my computer life!!! ). I set google.com as my home page, but every time I open a new tab and then click the home page button, the address bar gets a red color, and indicates that the website does not supply identity information. When I click again on the home button, everything is ok. Why does this happen?
Hi, Panos.
What you are seeing is the "Site Identity Button" which then changes to the Google Favicon. See How do I tell if my connection to a website is secure? (https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-do-i-tell-if-my-connection-is-secure?redirectlocale=en-US&redirectslug=Site+Identity+Button). If you click on the "lock" icon, you'll get additional information about the site.
Hi, Corrine.
So, I leave it as it is? And could this appear in other sites?
By the way, what I get is a red warning circle.
Hmmm, no, Panos, a red warning circle isn't right.
Are you using http://google.com or https://google.com? When I typed the http address in the address bar, it temporarily showed an orange-ish lock and then changed to https showing the google favicon.
Can you click the circle to view the information on the site identity? If not, can you provide a screen copy of what it shows?
Good morning, Corrine.
I attach some screen shots below:
Some more information:
I set my homepage to http:// etc. Not to https://. I don't know why this changes every time I create a new tab and click home page.
Hi, Panos.
That explains it! About 2.5 years ago, Google changed search to encrypted search (using https) so you are automatically being redirected. The red circle has an exclamation point in the middle as a "warning" because parts of the page are not encrypted until redirected to https. See what happens if you change the setting for your home page to https://google.com.
Hi, Corrine.
I have changed my home page to https://google.com.cy but I get the same warning. When I first join Pale moon, the home page is ok. When I create a new tab and then click the home page button, the red color with the warning appears. If I click another time on the home button, all are ok. If it is not a security issue, then ok.
ok, something else before Monday and hard work starts again (I hope to, we will see... ).
Remember the problem I had with pale moon from May (red address bar -> see above)? I continued getting that red color, in a lot of sites, till now. I uninstalled and reinstalled and it is ok!
I'm glad that problem is behind you, especially since studies begin again on Monday. I have every confidence that you will do great work!