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Software & More => General Software News, Updates & Discussions => Topic started by: Corrine on August 16, 2018, 03:55:07 PM

Title: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: Corrine on August 16, 2018, 03:55:07 PM
Pale Moon version 28.0.0 has been released.  This release is a new major milestone in Pale Moon's release history.

Release Notes (http://www.palemoon.org/releasenotes.shtml)
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: ky331 on August 16, 2018, 05:56:32 PM
Observation:  PM 28 now supports TLS 1.3

Remark: MalwareBytes Anti-EXPLOIT  1.12.1.109  is blocking PM 28 (on my Win 8.1 system)... I've reported it here:  https://forums.malwarebytes.com/topic/235286-mbae-1121109-blocking-palemoon-28/
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: Corrine on August 16, 2018, 09:51:53 PM
The built in MBAE in Malwarebytes Pro didn't block it on either of my PCs but MBAE as a separate install is Beta.
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: plodr on August 17, 2018, 02:21:24 PM
I erased an older copy of Palemoon which was portable and apparently broke something because when I updated the installed version, all I got was an error. It said something along the lines of "palemoon has stopped working" and all I could do was close it. I downloaded the new v 28 portable version and had the same problem. (The v 28 portable worked fine on another computer so I knew it was me and not the browser.

Eventually, I had to restore my computer back to a July 31st image. Fortunately there weren't too many updates in 16 days.

I'll get brave later today and try to upgrade again.
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: plodr on August 18, 2018, 01:19:10 PM
Well that didn't work. Fortunately I tried to update the portable version and not the installed version. I see the same error box. It won't even start. My installed version I'm keeping at v 27 so I can use it.

I have a thread at the Palemoon forum about my issue.
If you have Nvidia, that might be the problem. Two of our four computers have Nvidia so unless it is fixed by Moonchild, Palemoon will no longer be our browser.
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: DR M on August 18, 2018, 02:11:48 PM
I recommend Pale Moon to my friends, and I use it without problems as my default browser. Accidentally I found this article: Why You Shouldn't Use Firefox Forks Like Waterfox, Pale Moon, or Basilisk (https://www.howtogeek.com/335712/update-why-you-shouldnt-use-waterfox-pale-moon-or-basilisk/). Is it true that PM uses an older Firefox code? For sure, I prefer PM instead of Firefox.

@Plodr, I have Nvidia in my computer too.
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: plodr on August 18, 2018, 02:58:43 PM
Dr M, have you updated to v 28 and does it load?
It might be Nvidia and the fact that I use a 32 bit computer. People are guessing what might be wrong at this point.
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: DR M on August 18, 2018, 03:00:47 PM
Quote from: plodr on August 18, 2018, 02:58:43 PM
Dr M, have you updated to v 28 and does it load?
It might be Nvidia and the fact that I use a 32 bit computer. People are guessing what might be wrong at this point.

Yes, plodr. No problems with the last update (64 bit).
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: satrow on August 18, 2018, 03:26:28 PM
@plodr: assuming hardware acceleration is on, could you try turning it off? Preferences > Advanced > General tab (makes the CPU do more of the work usually handed off to the GPU).

@DR M: The HTG article (and some of his other recent topics) is rather biased and quite flawed, the comments (why do I have to sign up and login there to see them now?!) did give him some flak over this.

Pale Moon is based loosely on FF 52/53, GUI design is I think older for better user customisation; much of the later FF changes haven't been taken up by PM (some are ephemeral 'tests' or promotions anyway, others are weaker than those replaced, things like DRM go against the idea of an 'open' web) and have been stripped out; web compatibility is a little behind the curve, FF/Chrome tend to make experimental/beta changes/additions whereas PM tries to keep close to the web standards. Security -wise, PM lags by a few days because Mozilla keep us waiting on the details needed to patch, though PM can be ahead in some areas, esp. where Mozilla's fixed 6 week cycle means they leave 'minor' issues for the next patch day/update.
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: Corrine on August 18, 2018, 05:13:56 PM
Although I have often referred to HTG links as examples of "how to" for various steps when they contain good pictorial instructions, I'll most definitely take satrow's explanation over the HTG article in this case.  The reason?  If you've spent any time at the Pale Moon forum (https://forum.palemoon.org/index.php), you'll note the name of the only Global Moderator who isn't the Founder/Admin (Moonchild, M.C. Straver) or the Pale Moon Linux Developer just so happens to be satrow.  IMO, other than Moonchild himself, there isn't likely to be many (any) people who know more about the development/process of Pale Moon than satrow.

Additionally, something I've noted many times with Pale Moon updates is the inclusion that the update includes DiD ("Defense-in-Depth") changes, defined as "a fix does not apply to a (potentially) actively exploitable vulnerability in Pale Moon, but prevents future vulnerabilities caused by the same code, e.g. when surrounding code changes, exposing the problem, or when new attack vectors are discovered."  In other words, taking that extra step to protect users of Pale Moon.
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: DR M on August 18, 2018, 06:06:40 PM
Thanks, Corrine and Satrow. I knew/suspected that something was not said right in HTG site. I'm very satisfied with PM, and every computer I brought here for cleaning has now PM installed. Even at school I worked the previous years, my colleagues learned about it and use it.  And it's good to hear all these from someone he is involved with this project.
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: plodr on August 18, 2018, 09:28:41 PM
QuotePreferences > Advanced > General tab
It is on in v 27.
Since I can't get v 28 to start, clicking on Tools is impossible. I suspect changing this in v 27 would have zero affect on my non-functioning portable version of 28.

If there is someway to get into the files without clicking on palemoon.exe, then it might be possible to change it.
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: Corrine on August 18, 2018, 10:27:50 PM
That preference is inherited in the update so if you're installing the portable version on the same device, it would pick it up just as it does other preferences, add-ons, etc. when updating.
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: plodr on August 18, 2018, 10:30:10 PM
The problem is, I don't have a working portable version to edit the preferences.

Give me some time to get a working portable v 27, change the preference the update and see if it will load.
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: plodr on August 18, 2018, 10:41:22 PM
I found a copy of PB 27.4 portable on a USB stick. I copied it to my desktop, and ran it. I turned off hardware acceleration then I checked for updates. v 28 was downloaded and installed. When run, I get the same non-functioning error.

At this point, I'm giving up attempting to update to v 28. It is broken on some computers.
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: Corrine on August 18, 2018, 11:01:09 PM
Hopefully, a solution will be posted in your thread on the Pale Moon forum.
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: plodr on August 18, 2018, 11:42:22 PM
I know it's next to impossible to troubleshoot when it doesn't crash. It simply refuses to even open.

I did try 28 portable on my laptop and that worked but if I can't get it working on my desktop, I'm afraid to attempt an upgrade on my husband's two computers because I might have the same mess on my hands. One of his computers is 32 bit, like my desktop and his laptop has Nvidia, same as my desktop so I expect I might have problems with one or the other of his computers and I don't want to have to restore 2 more images.
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: ky331 on August 19, 2018, 01:17:15 AM
Plodr wrote:  "It simply refuses to even open".   
That's basically what happened to me, when I commented earlier in this thread that MB-A.Exploit 1.12.1.109 (beta) was blocking PM.
I see Moonchild conceded the same thing apparently happens with EMET https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=19985#p148120

Are you using either of these?   (or maybe some other security program is similarly conflicting/blocking PM from starting.)
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: plodr on August 19, 2018, 01:33:40 AM
No, I don't use EMET and with the same programs (malwarebytes pro and MS Security Essentials) and same settings, v 28 will work on my laptop.

I try and turn off the exploit portion of MBAM to see if v 28 fires up. If it does, this problem is solved BUT I will not turn off exploit protection to run a browser. I'll use a different browser.
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: Corrine on August 19, 2018, 02:01:38 AM
As painful as it would be, I'd do the same, plodr.
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: plodr on August 19, 2018, 03:22:17 AM
I guess I'm on a roll tonight. I solved 3 out of 3 problems.

PM v28 portable opens on the troubled desktop now that I've disabled exploit protection in MBAM.
At least I now know what the problem is.

Unless this is fixed, I won't be running PM 28. I am not willing to sacrifice protection to use this browser.
FF 61.0.1 runs without disabling protection.

I'll add my comment to the thread PM 28 doesn't run at the forum there.
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: plodr on August 19, 2018, 08:56:37 PM
I'm going to head to the MBAM forum and ask if I can add the palemoon-portable.exe to the exclusion list and see if my browser is still protected.

Scratch that idea. I just added it to the exclusions under settings and the browser will not run. It seems that Exploit protection must be turned off for Palemoon to fire up on this computer.
Title: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0.1 Released
Post by: Corrine on August 28, 2018, 11:35:41 AM
Pale Moon Version 28.0.0.1 has been released.

From the Release Notes (http://www.palemoon.org/releasenotes.shtml):
Quote
This is a Windows-only update to address some stability/performance issues that have popped up with the new milestone release on especially 32-bit systems.

The cause seems to be a compiler bug in Visual Studio 2015 with certain optimizations. Although 64-bit does not seem to be directly affected, we are still applying more cautious optimizations there too from this point forward until we can figure out exactly what the cause is and which (more aggressive) optimizations are safe to use.
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0.1 Released
Post by: plodr on August 28, 2018, 01:51:17 PM
I'm only running a portable version because I'm not willing to update my installed version.

I also went to malwarebytes forum for help on a possible exclusion and downloaded the troubleshooting tool. Unfortunately, you need NET 4 for that to run. Three of the four computers have 3.5 SP1 with all the patches. I'm unwilling to "upgrade" and then start installing a few years of patches. So, it looks like I won't be asking the malwarebytes forum for help since I can't run the tool. <sigh>

I'm looking forward to moving away from Windows.
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0.1 Released
Post by: ky331 on August 28, 2018, 05:29:47 PM
MalwareBytes Anti-EXPLOIT  1.12.1.109  is NOT blocking PM 28.0.1 (on my 32-bit Win 8.1 system) [as it had been with PM 28.0]

Plodr: perhaps you may test again, activating anti-exploit in MBAM, and seeing if you can install pm-portable.
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: plodr on August 29, 2018, 03:14:11 PM
I don't run Malwarebytes anti-exploit. I run malwarebytes premium with a lifetime subscription it has 4 parts: web protection, exploit protection, malware protection and ransomeware protection.
Palemoon throws up and error and won't even start unless I turn off exploit protection.
(https://www.landzdown.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthumbs2.imagebam.com%2Fa8%2Fb0%2F4c%2F72dd52949009604.jpg&hash=64303db7366f7074adf10ee1d93ef70d267c6f13) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/72dd52949009604)

that's on my desktop. On my husband's desktop, it doesn't show the error. I click the Palemoon exe and absolutely nothing happens.

I've tested it numerous times for both versions on two computers. I'm also running Windows 7 and not Windows 8.1. So two things are different, different version of Windows and different malwarebytes program.
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: DR M on August 29, 2018, 04:01:23 PM
Why is this?

QuoteDue to a potential security issue with the web installer, it is currently unavailable. Please find links to our most popular individual download pages, instead.

The Pale Moon Project homepage (https://www.palemoon.org/)
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: Corrine on August 29, 2018, 05:08:19 PM
Panos, putting on my guessing hat, I wonder if that could very well explain the reason for MBAE and MBAM Pro exploit protection blocking Pale Moon.  Originally, ky331 was updating Pale Moon.  Although he wasn't using the web installer, it is possible the earlier version of MBAE was incorrectly detecting the update installation.  With plodr, however, I wonder if the portable versions are seen by MBAM exploit protection as the web installer.
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: plodr on August 30, 2018, 01:20:55 PM
QuoteWith plodr, however, I wonder if the portable versions are seen by MBAM exploit protection as the web installer.
Ordinarily, I'd agree except for the fact that the portable version (same 32 bit version) works fine on two of our computers with MBAM exploit protection enabled.

Title: Pale Moon Version 28.0.1 Released
Post by: Corrine on August 31, 2018, 01:34:10 PM
Pale Moon version 28.0.1 has been released.  This is a bugfix point release to address serious performance bottlenecks and general run-time issues, particularly impacting 32-bit operating systems.

Release Notes (http://www.palemoon.org/releasenotes.shtml)
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: plodr on August 31, 2018, 02:33:28 PM
So why does he have a 28.0.1 on the 28th, which I tried and it still won't run and another on August 31st?

It seems to me he should call this one 28.0.2 ?

I wonder if it is worth my time downloading this version?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It was! This one fired up without having to turn off exploit protection. :) :) :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: winchester73 on August 31, 2018, 02:39:51 PM
Quote from: plodr on August 31, 2018, 02:33:28 PM
So why does he have a 28.0.1 on the 28th, which I tried and it still won't run and another on August 31st?

It seems to me he should call this one 28.0.2 ?

That was 28.0.0.1 (Windows only) ... an extra 0
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: satrow on August 31, 2018, 02:48:38 PM
I'm already seeing reports that this update fixes the issue with PMx86 failing to start when MBAE is active (http://forum.webuser.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=1207454&postcount=24), it must be worth testing.
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: plodr on August 31, 2018, 03:03:21 PM
QuoteThat was 28.0.0.1 (Windows only) ... an extra 0
Thanks! I missed that completely.

Anyway, I think I have my ducks in a row. I removed 28.0 and 28.0.0.1 from my stick where I archive working browsers and semi-working browsers and copied 28.0.1 on it.

If it works on my husband's desktop computer, I'll consider it is ready to be updated.
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: winchester73 on August 31, 2018, 03:27:50 PM
Quote from: plodr on August 31, 2018, 03:03:21 PM

Anyway, I think I have my ducks in a row.

That's the most important thing  ;)
Title: Re: Pale Moon Version 28.0.0 Released
Post by: hayc59 on August 31, 2018, 06:09:14 PM
working well here..no hiccups :)