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Messages - Digerati

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Moderate/mediate - do you understand either/both?
:( Of course I do. And yet I see no mediating going on in that PM thread - at least not by those who are supposed to moderate.

I'm defending no-one and everyone
Right - and reading back through this thread, I must have missed where you expressed an understanding of plodr's position too.  ::) I missed where you said you understand why she felt there was a problem with PM playing some video files. And how you understood how the error message might lead one to believe the problem could be related to HTML5. Or why she might feel the staff there was being dismissive.

I guess I need more coffee this morning because reading through this thread again, I see where you excused Moonchild by saying he didn't have the time to test the issue before he told plodr to use her brain. I see where you excused Tobin because he is in the US and does not need a VPN. I see where you excused their behavior because things were "difficult/hectic/repetitive". I see where you excused Tobin because he is not a moderator of that specific forum. I see where you defended PM for not supporting built in pdf reading and DRM due to bloat. I just don't see any defense for Liz's position at all. But you say you defend "everyone" so it must be in there somewhere.

Oh well.

FTR, if Moonchild doesn't want to put DRM support in PM, that's fine. I'm really am perfectly okay with that. As you correctly noted, PM is a browser. It is not a media player. But since PM does support playing several other media formats, I think it would be good if they posted a list of media formats they do support, perhaps on their FAQ page rather than assume all users should automatically know it doesn't support DRM files - so they don't feel compelled to belittle them when they don't. :( Perhaps you could ask your friends over there to do that? Just a thought.

I'm moving on.

Binary Outcast = Tobin and he can only moderate his own area plus his 'special' Off-Topic playground.
It doesn't matter. He's still a member of the staff there. Just because he can't moderate across the entire site does not mean it is okay to run roughshod over posters in the other forums.

The fact is, Liz was treated with undeserving disrespect with personal insults. That is simply wrong - especially from staff members.

As for DRM - that's irrelevant here too. It does not matter if PM supports DRM. What matters is (1) the error message gave no clue that it was a DRM issue, (2) there is nothing on the PM home page or readily accessible data saying that it does not support DRM, therefore it should not be expected to be common knowledge. And (3) and most importantly for this discussion here, those two members of the staff did not need to be so disrespectful. It was rude and uncalled for.

Make some allowances? I don't get why you keep making excuses for and are defending Tobin so vigorously. I guess he's a friend or something. That's fine. But he's pushing 8 years on that site with nearly 7,000 posts. He is not newbit. And he was selected by Moonchild to be a mod on that site despite you downplaying that role. And he joined that thread clearly to pounce on Liz - not to provide technical help in any manner. There was nothing right or just in how that was handled by them.

You can keep defending them. That's your right. But Liz was the one mistreated, not them.

Now I got a martini ready and need to fire up the grill. So I'm outta here. 

Tobin's NOT a site or forum moderator.
I don't know how they set their staff hierarchy up so may not be a "site" (as in "global") moderator. But he certainly is a moderator on the site. As seen on this page, he is the moderator for at least the Binary Outcast Projects and the Off-Topic forums.

PM's a web browser, it's never had DRM
I don't understand your point. Edge, FF, Chrome are web browsers. They support playing DRM content.

Nothing and no-one's perfect, esp. when times are difficult/hectic/repetitive/...
Ummm, I don't see where that plays here either. Difficult and hectic are not factors or excuses. If Liz had asked this same question repetitively, then maybe. But AFAIK, she hadn't. How many times do we see the same questions over and over? Enough for me to have a 60+ page Word document of "canned" texts responses. Plus a bad day may explain one staff members behavior, not both.

Any US/CA-based helpers on the PM site wouldn't require a VPN
I realize that. My comment was in response to you suggesting "he" (presuming you meant Moonchild) didn't set this up. My point is, that should not matter. He should have checked out the link plodr provided. If it didn't work, he would have seen it didn't work. If it worked, he would have seen it was a copyrighted movie and [hopefully] at that point realized it was a DRM issue.

Tobin's US and he made the call on DRM, presumably after eventually running a quick check.
Yes, after another poster suggested it. The "call" was likely a good one. The crass replies from both Moonchild and especially Tobin were not. plodr said nothing in her first 4 posts that caused her to deserve being told by the site admin/owner to "use your brain", for example. Prefacing an undeserved slap in the face with "kindly" does not make the slap less offensive.

Then Tobin, a site moderator, joining in with his derisive comments was no less offensive, IMO. The video played perfectly fine for me with Edge, Chrome, and FF - but not PM. I had no reason to suspect DRM either. Is every PM user supposed to automatically know PM does not support DRM when virtually every other popular browser does? There certainly is nothing on the Palemoon homepage listing its limitation.

The error message says nothing about DRM. But it does clearly mention "HTML5". So did plodr's conclusion that PM can't handle HTML5 call for Tobin to join the thread to call her conclusion "Such bullshit"?

And again, if it is that obvious as Tobin implies, then it seems to me Moonchild should have immediately realized it too - IF only he tried the link in first place. For if he had, he would have immediately seen it was a movie.

A quick search showed that the earliest mention of Pale Moon here at LzD was in March, 2014.  In fact, that was when I switched to it:  Pale Moon Browser.
Yeah, that was just a guess based on the Wikipedia article that says PM came out in Oct 2009. It might have been your SG blog in 2014 when I first started using it. It just seems longer than that. "I'm not into time, Man!" ;)

Quote from: satrow
Perhaps he didn't feel he had the immediate time to set up a working US/CA VPN (not all 'American' VPN's are allowed access, as I discovered) and test it for himself?
I supposed that is possible but I would think since so many PM users live in the US, such a test platform would already be set up.

Speaking of extensions, one thing nice about the new Edge is there is just one programming model for extensions for both the new Chromium-based Edge and Google Chrome. So extensions made for Chrome work in Edge too.

So if you see anyone claiming it does not have good extension support, they clearly have not done their homework or bothered to give Edge any sort of fair chance.

He could have saved us both time by posting the DRM issue at the start of the thread. (I'm sure he was aware of the issue; why did he not mention it until he had me jump through hoops?)
In his defense - well, not "defense" but as a possible explanation for him not mentioning it right away; he might not have realized this was a DRM issue. I say that only because there was never any mention that your video was a "movie" and thus perhaps copyrighted and protected by DRM. 

In fact the word "movie" doesn't show up in that thread until the very last post. That is NOT however, an excuse or defense of the behavior demonstrated or the "tone" of the replies you received from the staff there. I am just saying DRM might not have occurred to him until someone else mentioned it later in the thread.

FTR, PaleMoon was my preferred and default browser for many years - I think I started using it around 2010. I probably saw Corrine mention it somewhere! IE had been my default, but it seemed more and more sites were moving towards W3C standards and away from IE/MS standards. Plus it seemed MS was already beginning to abandon IE. It stopped working right.

I really liked PM, but I was never truly happy with it. Little issues kept bugging me. When W10 came out with the original Edge, I gave it a try. But that clearly was an unfinished, underdeveloped, flawed product right out of the gate. I maybe gave it 30 minutes before moving back to PM.

Fast forward to 2019 and I was becoming more and more disappointed with PM due to various site rendering problems. For example, I could never view my water/sewer/trash bill with PM because the webpage would never, and still will not load in PM. But it loads fine with every other browser.

This is a public utilities company for the largest metro area in Nebraska. I contacted them and they said they only support the major, "standards compliant" browsers like FF, IE, Chrome, and Safari. Not sure IE would be considered "standards compliant" but that's not really the point. The point is, every month to view my bill so I could pay it, I had to remember to call up a different browser. Chrome worked fine so I used that.

I was having problems with other sites too, including forums I visit daily. So when the "new", Chromium-based Edge came out, I gave it a try and soon discovered I had no problems viewing any site I went to, I switched to Edge as my default. At first, I figured it would be just for a short test/evaluation period. But it didn't take long to realize Edge was working better (at least for me) than PM did. So Edge is now my default. I don't miss PM.

I know there are many who refuse to give Edge a fair shot because it has the Microsoft brand on it. But that is a biased viewpoint. Folks need to set aside their prejudices and give it a fair shot. Microsoft is NOT the same company it used to be. Edge is NOT IE. Today's Edge is not even the same Edge that originally came with W10!

I am not suggesting everyone switch to Edge. I am just saying if not totally happy with your current browser, forget the brand behind it and give the "new" Edge a fair shot.

Eventually, it will be pushed out to all W10 users so if using W10, you may already have it. The latest version is Version  80.0.361.69. If you don't have it yet (or you are still using W7/W8.x) you can download it from here.

Is Youtube very slow where you are? It has been very slow here the last past 3 weeks.
There are reports of too much bandwidth usage in the NY metropolitan area including northeastern NJ, since the "stay home" orders.

If it's affecting the other streaming services, I imaging it's affecting YouTube.
Good point though I suspect it is happening all over and not just NYC. It could be bandwidth or just servers getting hit with an abnormal number of requests - or more likely, a combination of both.

I just tried a couple again and having no problems here.

I would not know. I don't watch it regularly. And not sure what you mean by "slow" anyway. If the video or movie plays at normal speed and not "slow motion" (which would be impossible with digital video) then it is normal. I connect fine, the video cues up fine, and I get no "buffering" is about all I can say.

what do you think?

I think, unless a true security expert and a true Windows 10 expert and incapable of making a mistake, it is a bad idea to disable Windows Update. Period.

I also note the publisher's own description of the program states it is for the purpose of preventing "the computer from automatically restarting itself while you're busy working on important projects". It was not created for users who just don't like Windows Update automatically installing updates, or because a Windows Update might break Windows.

And for the record, I have never, not once, ever had Windows Update reboot my computer while I was using it without warning AND without providing me the opportunity to postpone the reboot.

IMO, disabling Windows Update is like driving without a seatbelt using the excuse, "I might get trapped in a fire".

I understand Flash is not the problem. I was just commenting on that because it was mentioned earlier.

As seen in the thread here, it turns out it is due to DRM. But the staff did not verify or conclude that until well after plodr expressed her concerns. And even then (as you noted while I was typing this reply) when the mod came in to state it was due to DRM, he did so with a totally unnecessary, if not totally rude attitude. :(

If some in the US are getting the same error as me, it is as I suspect, Palemoon can't handle every video format and it has nothing to do with a) no flash on any of my computers b) the addons I've installed c) the plugin I have.
I don't see what the user's location in the world has to do with this.

I also am not sure it is fair to single-out Palemoon as being unable to play "every" video format. That is, do we know for a fact that Chrome, FF, Edge, or [fill in the blank] can play "every" video format out there? But clearly, PM cannot play those formats when (at least IMO) it should - or at least give a more descriptive error message.

I also know for certain that I am NOT going to enable Flash just to view that content. I mean if Microsoft has Edge set to "Always block Flash (recommended)" set by default, that should be clear enough warning to keep Flash content blocked.

I just checked out your thread at the PM forums and was disappointed in the "tone" and some of the comments in the replies you got from the staff there. Pretty sad.

As far as refusing to play DRM content, there may be something to that - but as I noted, for me it seems to be choking on the ads that play (or try to play) before the movie. In any case, it seems to me if the admin and/or moderator staff had tried your link before posting to see if they had the same issue, then determined the cause, they could have provided a logical explanation without their tone of intolerance for anyone with less experience.
 and understanding of the inner workings of PM than them. :(

I get the same error as you, Liz. It works fine in Edge. And in FF, it works, but it plays a couple ads first. So it seems in PM, it is choking on those ads.

As to installing the security updates, you've spent enough years on the forums to know what happens when people don't keep their device updated.  It is one thing to delay the version upgrade but when there are critical security updates, I personally don't choose to wait.
I don't either. In fact, it is common for me on this, my primary computer, to check for and install any updates on Tuesdays, the day they traditionally are released.

I started doing this right away after migrating to Windows 10 primarily because I wanted to practice what I preached to my family and my clients. That is, "keep your operating systems current. That is a primary defense against the bad guys". I also wanted to install the updates first just in case there were problems - so I would be familiar with them (and how to fix them) should my clients call.

But as it was, problems didn't happen. Updates installed just fine. I didn't get any calls. Yes, over the years, there have been a couple (less than a handful) of hiccups. But worse case was fixed by a simple reboot.

Now I have encountered other computers that had problems after updates but what I discovered was those computers had many default settings that were changed by the user. They used 3rd party security programs, driver update utilities, and/or they dinked with virtual memory (page file) settings, and more. In many cases, those computers were older hardware - upgraded from W7. Hardware that often lacked solid W10 driver support from the HW maker.

Now I cannot and will not say those programs caused the problems, or that you will never have problems if you leave the defaults as Microsoft sets them. But it sure "seems", at least from here, that less problems occur if you just leave Windows alone. Contrary to what many want us to believe, the developers at Microsoft really are some pretty sharp people who know what they are doing. Not sure I can say that about the marketing folks, or some of the executive decisions made in Redmond, but the developers have done and are doing a good job.

[/Soap box]

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