Author Topic: Are you in California? (Heads up - political post about Prop 8)  (Read 8451 times)

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Offline Aaron Hulett

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Are you in California? (Heads up - political post about Prop 8)
« on: October 20, 2008, 07:22:22 AM »
Hello everyone (including those that don't live in California and snuck in to see what this post is about).

Please know that I'm going to cross the line a bit here.  This forum isn't a place where we discuss politics, and I'm not looking to suggest this forum even become such a place.  And please know that if you prefer not to read something of a political nature here, feel free to hit the back button and mark this thread as read.  But (yes, here's the "but" part) I'm hoping that if you choose to read my post that you'll understand why I'm posting this.

Those of you that are registered voters in California have the opportunity to vote on Proposition 8.  Prop 8 eliminates the right of same-sex couples to marry by amending the California Constitution to define marriage between a man and a woman.  California's one of the few states (Massachusetts and Connecticut being the other two) where same-sex couples can marry.  Here in Washington, we have domestic partnerships which give just a sliver of the legal rights that come with marriage.  And if a couple were to leave the state, there's zero guarantee that the other state would even recognize the partnership.

Here at LandzDown we have visitors and members from all over the world.  We all have different views.  Our own opinions.  Our own beliefs.  And I know that there are people, not necessarily those here, but people that believe I suffer from some kind of disease, that homosexuality is wrong, a sin, that I’m going to Hell, or even worse, that I should be killed.  Your personal views are your own, just as my personal views are mine.  And I respect your views.  But I hope you'll agree that one’s personal views should not affect another person’s enjoyment of life.  And when I say personal views, I don't include such social norms as, "Murder is wrong," or, "One should not steal from another."  I'm hoping those are just obvious things that are part of a civilized society.  This is on the level of, "I'll wear a blue shirt today," or, "Perhaps I'll walk to work rather than driving."

Again, I know this isn’t a place for politics, but this is so much more for me than picking who should be president, or if we should raise our taxes to help pay for a new school, or if that intersection should have a left turn lane added.  I’m really hoping that if you’re in California, that when you go to vote on Prop 8, that you vote no, allowing same-sex couples to continue enjoying all the benefits of marriage.  And to give people like me in other states hope that one day even more states, hopefully even Washington, will allow gay marriage.

One day, I want to take my boyfriend's hand.  Look into his eyes.  Tell him how much I love him.  How much he means to me.  How I want to spend the rest of our lives together.  And ask him to marry me.  Maybe he'd ask me, and I'd smile, crying, and say yes.

I want to own a home together.  Have children.  Be a family.  Grow old together, knowing that we don’t have to spend thousands of dollars preparing legal documents for something that married couples enjoy automatically.

I want to be able get in the ambulance with him if he's hurt.  Go to the hospital with him.  To hear what’s wrong, and make those tough medical decisions that sometimes have to be made.  To hold his hand.  Be with him.  Tell him I love him if it's his final moments.

I want to be able to make his funeral arrangements.  For him to make mine.  Leave him my worldly possessions.  Know that he’ll be taken care of when I’m gone.

And I want to be able to go to another state and not worry about it.  To be able to avoid needing to hunt down my “Domestic Partnership” certificate to prove we’re partners when asked at the hospital counter.  Not need to use the word partner.  And not need to worry that our partnership might not be recognized.

There's so much more that I want.  But one of the most important things I want is to be able to wear my wedding band and if someone asks, be able to say, "He's my husband."

Even with Washington State’s domestic partnerships, I can’t do that – I get bits and pieces of what married couples enjoy, and if I leave the state, I might not even get the bits and pieces.  And I’m hoping (along with many others) that when you vote no on Prop 8 and it doesn’t pass in California, not only does it allow same-sex couples to keep the right to marry that they only just got, that it helps send a message to other states that they should rethink gay marriage if they don't allow it.  And hopefully one day, I and many others will be able to enjoy what many married couples do today.

Whether or not you’re in California and vote no on Prop 8, I hope you understand why I stepped outside the forum’s norms and posted this, and accept my thanks for, even if a brief moment, your thinking about it.  If you want more information, please visit http://www.NoOnProp8.com/.

Thanks everyone,

Aaron

Offline R-C

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Re: Are you in California? (Heads up - political post about Prop 8)
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2008, 05:30:29 PM »
Aaron I am not in California, just wanted to give you my support, I certainly understand your wants and yearnings, I simply can not imagine my life with out my husband of 34 years beside me.
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Offline Felburg

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Re: Are you in California? (Heads up - political post about Prop 8)
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2008, 01:55:26 AM »
I'm definetly voting "NO" on Prop 8.  I feel that same-sex couples have the right to be married.  It doesn't bother me if I see a gay or lesbian couple walking down the street.

I've had several friends who I went to school with who turned out to be gay or lesbian, and I never saw a problem with it.

Why would it bother anybody else?

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Offline Aaron Hulett

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Re: Are you in California? (Heads up - political post about Prop 8)
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2008, 09:35:51 PM »
Well, they're not done counting yet, but, I'm not going to hold my breath at this point.

California Proposition 8 - Ban on Gay Marriage
Yes 5,344,012   (52%)
No  4,854,132   (48%)
99% of precincts reporting
(Source: cnn.com)

Earlier today there were roughly 3 million votes yet to count per noonprop8.com... here's hoping.

Offline Felburg

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Re: Are you in California? (Heads up - political post about Prop 8)
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2008, 04:06:18 PM »
Unfortunately, this passed.
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Offline Aaron Hulett

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Re: Are you in California? (Heads up - political post about Prop 8)
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2008, 05:34:09 PM »
And that's it... for now anyway.

From noonprop8.com in my inbox just now:
Quote
Dear Aaron,

We had hoped never to have to write this email.

Sadly, fueled by misinformation, distortions and lies, millions of voters went to the polls yesterday and said YES to bigotry, YES to discrimination, YES to second-class status for same-sex couples.

And while the election was close, and millions of votes still remain uncounted, it has become apparent that we lost.

There is no question this defeat is hard.

Thousands of people have poured their talents, their time, their resources and their hearts into this struggle for freedom and this fight to have their relationships treated equally. Much has been sacrificed in this struggle.

While we knew the odds for success were not with us, we believed Californians could be the first in the nation to defeat the injustice of discriminatory measures like Proposition 8.

And while victory is not ours this day, we know that because of the work done here, freedom, fairness and equality will be ours someday. Just look at how far we have come in a few decades.

Up until 1974 same-sex intimacy was a crime in California. There wasn't a single law recognizing the relationships of same-sex couples until 1984 -- passed by the Berkeley School District. San Francisco did not pass domestic-partner protections until 1990; the state of California followed in 2005. And in 2000, Proposition 22 passed with a 23% majority.

Today, we fought to retain our right to marry and millions of Californians stood with us. Over the course of this campaign everyday Californians and their friends, neighbors and families built a civil rights campaign unequalled in California history.

You raised more money than anyone believed possible for an LGBT civil rights campaign.

You reached out to family and friends in record numbers -- helping hundreds of thousands of Californians understand what the LGBT civil rights struggle is really about.

You built the largest grassroots and volunteer network that has ever been built -- a coalition that will continue to fight until all people are equal.

And you made the case to the people of California and to the rest of the world that discrimination -- in any form -- is unfair and wrong.

We are humbled by the courage, dignity and commitment displayed by all who fought this historic battle.

Victory was not ours today. But the struggle for equality is not over.

Because of the struggle fought here in California -- fought so incredibly well by the people in this state who love freedom and justice -- our fight for full civil rights will continue.

Activist and writer Anne Lamott writes, "Hope begins in the dark, the stubborn hope that if you just show up and try to do the right thing, the dawn will come. You wait and watch and work: you don't give up."

We stand together, knowing... our dawn will come.


Dr. Delores A. Jacobs
CEO
Center Advocacy Project

Lorri L. Jean
CEO
L.A. Gay & Lesbian Center

Kate Kendell
Executive Director
National Center for Lesbian Rights

Geoff Kors
Executive Director
Equality California  
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Offline Eric the Red

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Re: Are you in California? (Heads up - political post about Prop 8)
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2008, 08:45:25 PM »
Put in for a move to Thames Valley Park, Reading, England. Civil Partnerships are recognised over here.
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Offline winchester73

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Re: Are you in California? (Heads up - political post about Prop 8)
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2008, 12:09:42 AM »
Civil Partnerships

I hate to think about the uncivil ones ...  :D
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Offline mitch

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Re: Are you in California? (Heads up - political post about Prop 8)
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2008, 12:16:01 AM »
FYI domestic partnerships are allowed in california and have been for years

in california we do not allow "partner 1 and partner 2"        but man and woman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_partnership_in_California

and when a teacher can take her kids out of class to watch a gay wedding and the parents didn't know about it i think that is wrong !

now i left a while ago cause i spoke my mind about Ubuntu and not the glories of windows

and see this post which i think is a bit over the line on politics
and this is california not any other state

so i would like to be removed from the membership here NOW
thank you
mitch

Offline Aaron Hulett

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Re: Are you in California? (Heads up - political post about Prop 8)
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2008, 01:06:33 AM »
I don't know all the circumstances around that potential case, but regardless, I don't believe that teachers should be taking students out of class for any reason without parents' / guardians' permission, don't you agree?  Well, ok, if the school building is on fire...

Offline babyoh

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Re: Are you in California? (Heads up - political post about Prop 8)
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2008, 07:17:32 AM »
wow.
i'm surprised to find a post like this here.

in the case to which mitch refers "(t)wo families did opt out of the field trip." so, parental permission had been required.
http://www.christianexaminer.com/Articles/Articles%20Nov08/Art_Nov08_11.html

- i didn't know about Domestic Partnership in california, and was just reading the wikipedia link.
it may seem like good solid law, but it probably isn't: future right-leaning courts could rule the amendments weren't permissible.

* anyway, aaron, thanks for your post.
sorry that prop 8 passed.






Offline Aaron Hulett

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Re: Are you in California? (Heads up - political post about Prop 8)
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2008, 03:09:55 AM »
I don't know how many of you watch MSNBC's Countdown with Keith Olbermann, but tonight he said what I have trouble saying.  If you're interested in hearing his comments, I embedded it at my blog.  http://www.aaronhulett.com/?p=133

Offline mitch

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Re: Are you in California? (Heads up - political post about Prop 8)
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2008, 12:58:46 PM »


the election is over with
i am sure it will be up in the courts soon
explain the justification in defacing churches because prop 8 was not defeated?,valdalism, blocking traffic
what is the difference between what i posted in the wiki and what you want?
i did not see you mentioning the other states that have voted on it?
you have the right to do what you want, i have my rights, does this mean you get the right to change what we voted for?
the majority of people ideas don't count and you have the right to do things your way?
should i have the right to marry my dog too?

i thought this was a non political site, but guess not!

as i posted before and sent off a PM i no longer want to be associated with this site



Offline Basementgeek

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Re: Are you in California? (Heads up - political post about Prop 8)
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2008, 01:46:29 PM »
Hi All:

It is hard to keep my mouth shut over this, but I think this forum was set up to help folks with problems with their PC.

In my opinion we ought to keep politics, religion and sexuality out of it.  I am not saying these topics are unimportant to some, many or all.  I am sure there are thousands of forums these topics can be addressed..

The folks in CA have spoken what they want.  That is the way the law works, majority be they right or end up being wrong ,works.

BG
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Offline Niecarrah

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Re: Are you in California? (Heads up - political post about Prop 8)
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2008, 02:57:07 PM »
I also thought, in the 'Lounge' we could talk about almost anything?
I can't know...?
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