Windows 10 Users --Like It or Not, You're Updated

[Digerati]

The idea of being forced to accept updates at a time when one may or may not need them seems autocratic and Big Brother like.

Smart phones are outselling PCs big time as more and more users migrate to handhelds. They force feed updates. Where's all the android and IOS bashers for that?

Microsoft is putting security over user control - and they should because users are, always have been, and always will be the weakest link in security. And users (with the exception of a very small, but very vocal minority) have proven themselves over and over again as incapable of keeping their systems secure with keeping the OS updated one of, if not the most critical step.

And yet what has happened over and over again when a user's system got infected? Microsoft got blamed for a lack of security when it was the badguys perpetrating the offense, and the user's failure to "practice safe computing" that caused in infection in the first place. And MS was not just blamed by the users, but the extremely biased IT media who continually use their position to sensationalize headlines and displace blame.

As an IT tech since the early 70's who has had to clean up the messes caused by users who continue to fail (either out of neglect or ignorance) to secure their systems, who then turn around and blame Microsoft for their mistakes, I applaud Microsoft for taking this approach.

Why? Because when users fail to keep their systems updated and secure, their computers become a threat to me, my kids, my grandkids and everyone else on the Internet.

And if me, I would much rather get blamed for ruining my grandkids fun by not letting them play in the street than see a drunk or a carjacker run them over because they were not paying attention. If you don't think that analogy applies, you are just wrong!

100s of millions of Windows users run with Windows and Windows Update at the default settings with no problems whatsoever.

W10 is just the launcher of your programs. If W10 does not support your "modern" hardware, does not play your games designed for it, does work with your productivity software intended to be used on it, does not allow you to listen to your music, watch your videos, email, Facebook, Twitter, surf the Internet or pay your bills AND keep you safe at the same time, then you have something to gripe about.

If you want full control over your OS, switch to a modern version of Linux.

Note too that Windows 7 is already more than 6 years old. W8.x is considerably more secure than W7 (especially with hardware designed for W8) and W10 is more secure than W8.1. Because of badguys security must and does trump everything else. Sticking with W7 because W10 automatically updates is just being naïve.

[winchester73]

http://www.infoworld.com/article/2949622/microsoft-windows/windows-10-forced-updates-dont-panic.html

[darksurfer]

Very good link, winchester73. So, I guess I'll wait and see when Microsoft starts force feeding its Windows 10musers bad security and other patches, and you will hear the hoots ad yells like you wouldn't believe/ :muahaha: :sos: :moreevil:

Some apparently like having Big Brother do everything for them. I always update my Windows 7 at the usual Tuesday per month. Telling someone that if they don't like the way Microsoft 10 does things, go to Linux seems besides the point. :shock:

I wonder how many Microsoft former or present employees are on this forum, touting all the wonders of their products.  As for myself, I prefer as much control as possible. Since I am a very advanced computer user, I like as much independence as possible. Forcing updates on people like they are children because they were "naughty" in not updating on time insults their intelligence. Why not just say they are too dumb to be true in knowing how to use their computer. :evil: :sos: :tease:

[Digerati]

I always update my Windows 7 at the usual Tuesday per month.
As for myself, I prefer as much control as possible.

This is almost a contradiction in terms because if you install Tueday's updates on Tuesday, then that does not give you time to see if any of the updates are causing problems. It takes at least a couple days to determine if any there are any problems and if those problems are isolated cases, or a major FUBAR by Microsoft. With my XP systems, I ALWAYS waited 4 or 5 days to install updates from Tuesday to wait to see/hear if there was any fallout. But W7/8 and especially W10 are not XP and should not be treated the same as XP.

I wonder how many Microsoft former or present employees are on this forum, touting all the wonders of their products.

I don't know of any here at Landzdown. But of the several MS employees I do know, they are some of the most critical people of MS products and policies I know.

FTR, I don't and never have worked for MS. And I'm all for bashing MS when due. And if you knew me, you would know I don't hold back, when due. This is not one of those times.

[Corrine]

FTR, I don't and never have worked for MS. And I'm all for bashing MS when due. And if you knew me, you would know I don't hold back, when due. This is not one of those times.

I can vouch for that. :D 

Bill, I've known Darksurfer at another forum since 2001 and believe he feels as I do.  I understand that I am using Microsoft software on my computer and, according to the Windows 10 license terms (from here), there's not a lot of choice:

Automatic updates. For consumers and small business, Windows 10 delivers automatic updates, with no option to selectively delay or reject individual updates. "The software periodically checks for system and app updates, and downloads and installs them for you. ... By accepting this agreement, you agree to receive these types of automatic updates without any additional notice."

That said, when people purchase an expensive device it is in the $800+ range to get an up-to-date laptop with at least 8GB memory and Intel i7.  That is a LOT of money to invest in a device that you own but literally have no control over.  I spent unnecessary time today restoring Build 10240 because either the two security updates or the nVidia driver update that were automatically installed resulted in Windows Search not functioning. 

Not only that, it wasn't until today that I received the "automatic update" for Flash Player to version 18.0.0.209 for Microsoft Edge.  I manually updated the plug-in Tuesday morning and have been checking for the ActiveX update twice daily since the Microsoft Security updates were released.

[plodr]

What scares me is if MS force feeds me driver updates! So, I will be watching from the sidelines for at least a year to see how this Win 10 update works.

I do not want my driver updates from MS. I had one bad experience years ago and have never chosen to install any other hardware driver that MS has recommended.

On two computers I have  suggested drivers for the attached monitors. The monitor have been working fine since 2009 on one computer and 2013 on another without the driver.

Skype is also listed. I don't want Skype. Is MS going to force a program on me that I never use and don't ever plan to use?

[Pete!]

I'm also acquainted with Darksurfer from that other forum.
We disagreed on just about everything political.
On this forum, I'm amazed at how much we agree.

BTW: There doesn't seem to have been anything addressing the plight of dialup users (discussed earlier), except to write them off as insignificant.

[Corrine]

BTW: There doesn't seem to have been anything addressing the plight of dialup users (discussed earlier), except to write them off as insignificant.

Nothing beyond what I posted earlier.  Unfortunately, the people I asked are all on high-speed internet connections and, I am certain, faster connections than I have.

[Frands]

dialup

Does dialup still exist ?  :confused: :shock:

[Corrine]

In the U.S., absolutely!  It was just this year that Pete finally got a broadband connection and Lost is still using dial-up.  There are people we know on another forum still using dial-up.  In fact, between AOL, Juno, 1access.net, frys.com and other companies that still provide dial-up Internet service my guess is that there are still at least 3 million people in the U.S. using dial-up.  Here's a recent report about AOL:  OMG: 2.1 million people still use AOL dial-up - May. 8, 2015.

[Pete!]

dialup

Does dialup still exist ?  :confused: :shock:

In suburban NJ, where most people consider DSL obsolete, I had two dialup accounts with different ISPs.
A few weeks ago, I checked, and both connected at 50 K or better.

I don't think the ISPs would still maintain (pay for) the access numbers, if they didn't have enough users to make it profitable.

[Digerati]

I spent unnecessary time today restoring Build 10240 because either the two security updates or the nVidia driver update that were automatically installed resulted in Windows Search not functioning.

That would certainly frustrate me too - especially if the NVIDIA driver update had nothing to do with my graphics card - as is often the case.

But compare that time to the time spent fixing a computer compromised by malware. Include the time it takes to find, then remove the malware from an infected system. Add in the time needed to fix the damage caused by the malware. Then the time to fix the frequent collateral damage caused by the malware removal process. Add that to the time needed to setup proper security on that system once clean, and to instruct/remind the user how to keep it safe from there.

Have you really spent an inordinate amount of time fixing computers broken by an automatic update?

Do the numbers of computers broken by WU even compare to those compromised by malware due to a lack of security and user discipline?

Did the WU problem threaten your identity? Did it expose your bank accounts? Turn your computer into a zombie pornography and/or spam distributor? Did it turn your computer into a threat to your other networked computers or to the rest of us?

***

I think we should not forget that W10 has not gone final yet so in effect, those of use using W10 are still beta testing it.

***

I really do understand the concern and fear that an automatic update will break a computer. I share those concerns! And I would never say it cannot or will not happen. Microsoft certainly has a history of such catastrophes that did indeed affect a lot of users - but not a large "percentage" of Windows users and I think we must not lose sight of that.

Just tossing out numbers, 10 million users with broken computers is a HUGE number. But with >1.4 billion Windows systems out there, that is less than 1% (.714%) - a tiny percentage and I am quite sure none of Microsoft's WU fiascos broke 10 million systems. 

Yet 10M complaining users make a LOT of noise which the IT media then relishes blowing WAY out of proportion with sensationalized headlines. Why? Because they love to bash Microsoft any chance they get.

So Microsoft will get bashed regardless. That's just a fact.

It is also a fact that Microsoft does and will get blamed if (when) a vulnerability is discovered badguys are able to exploit when users fail to protect their computers though a lack of discipline in practicing safe computing. Ever since the release of XP, Microsoft has been relentlessly bashed on security when it has been the badguys perpetrating the offenses on systems their owners failed to secure. And MS is sick and tired of being bashed on security when it is not their doing. And I don't blame them.

So I am saying when it comes to getting blamed, Microsoft would rather get blamed for something that is their doing than for a lack of security. And it is fact that failing to keep Windows updated is a major cause of computer infestations.

I'm a computer geek! Have been since the mid-70s. I want total control over my computers too. But badguys have changed the way we live our daily lives.

I am also an electronics technician who fixes computers. I have been in the trenches every day for over 4 decades! And I would much rather fix a computer that was broken by a failed WU than to fix one riddled with malware because the user failed to keep their OS and security updated.

And BTW, let us also not forget that those infected systems don't just affect the owners, but those computers then become threats against the rest of us too!

So "FOR THE GREATER GOOD", as someone who's had a very long career doing IT hardware support, I would much rather see automatic WUs if that means fewer compromised systems - since again, it is a known fact keeping Windows updated is one of the best defenses in security.

So do I want the freedom of full control over my computer? Yes. But this is another case where "Freedom is NOT Free!". And yes, it is sad. But blame the badguys, not Microsoft.

[darksurfer]

First of all, thanks Corrine and Pete(oh my Lord, we agree on something, oh happy day :mitch:)

I have been thinking long and hard about Windows 10 and the n allowing folk to have updates at their discretion is a major sticking point--and I am not the only one.

My decision to stay with Windows 7, in spite of all the "advantages" of Win10 is based on a beta-like mindset in that Microsoft is gonna do tweaks and improvements, no doubt, I hope, on Wiin10. One of those tweaks I hope will be the manual update option. Manual updating is no problem for me. A Big Brother approach to updates removes my control and many others over implementation of these updates. I also agree with plodr over drivers being cavalierly put on by Microsoft or any other company on computer(s) is not good business.

Like I said, if you want t be treated like babies who don't know to do, or should do, then I  suppose automatic updates would be the order of the day. But I don't like it nor am I foing to switch Operating systems--at least not yet.

There is one year to get the free Win10. Maybe they'll be changes in policies and structures that I'll like.

[winchester73]

Like I said, if you want t be treated like babies who don't know to do, or should do, then I  suppose automatic updates would be the order of the day. .

A bit overly simplistic or sensationalist, no?

[Digerati]

Like I said, if you want t be treated like babies who don't know to do, or should do, then I  suppose automatic updates would be the order of the day.

That is more insulting than being simplistic or a sensationalist. Excuse the world for not being as smart as you! You are now implying everyone should be as knowledgeable as you, and desire to be as hands-on as you. That is ridiculous. The fact of the matter is, the OS should be as hands-off as possible and just make your hardware work together and run the software you want to run. Other than that, the OS should stay out of the way! And Windows does that very well. 

If you want to be that hands on, run Linux! But don't insult everyone else because they don't care to be that hands-on.