Windows 10 Users --Like It or Not, You're Updated

[techie]

I don't know that a clean install would be possible, because you are upgrading. If you upgrade to WIN 10, then you are agreeing that the old WIN 7 or WIN 8 is no longer installed on any system, i.e. you are getting the Win 10 update by giving up your previous version. MS does allow a 30 day trial for testing most OS.

This is getting into the legal aspect, but if you upgrade your current system, you have 30 days to revert or rollback to your previous OS at least for now.

Since it is a direct download, not a ISO boot disk, I wouldn't think you could, because it is just like an update, except major locked to your current OS.

[Pete!]

I don't know that a clean install would be possible, because you are upgrading. If you upgrade to WIN 10, then you are agreeing that the old WIN 7 or WIN 8 is no longer installed on any system, i.e. you are getting the Win 10 update by giving up your previous version. MS does allow a 30 day trial for testing most OS.

This is getting into the legal aspect, but if you upgrade your current system, you have 30 days to revert or rollback to your previous OS at least for now.

Since it is a direct download, not a ISO boot disk, I wouldn't think you could, because it is just like an update, except major locked to your current OS.

I wasn't aware of the the agreement to do away with Win 7-8, nor the limited time to revert, but the rest is about what I thought, (unless they do it a lot differently than the Win 8 to 8.1 free upgrade).

Thanks

[Digerati]

I wasn't aware of the the agreement to do away with Win 7-8

It is not a matter of "doing away with" the older versions. Ever since Microsoft has been offering "upgrade" licenses, it has always been that there must be a qualifying license to start, and the upgrade is always tied to that qualifying license. The upgrade license agreement has never allowed you to keep the qualifying old Windows on 1 computer and the upgrade Windows on a new computer.

And that includes "virtual" machines and dual boot machines too - so you cannot "legally" have both operating systems as bootable OSs on 1 computer either. "Technically", it can be done but just because you can technically do something and get away with it does not make it legal (like rolling through stop signs). And note this is something we as users agreed to when we first started using the computers and decided to keep using them. And that's what makes it legally binding.

And to extend this further, if the original qualifying Windows license is an OEM/System Builders license, then that is inextricably tied to the "O"riginal "E"quipment so the W10 upgrade must also be installed on that original computer too.

[techie]

When I mentioned the dual boot, it was clearly stated using the preview release for insiders. You were allowed to use and test the software as is. You aren't required to upgrade your current system software, it can be a clean install, or as a dual boot as long as you stay logged into your MS account when using Windows 10 and provide feedback. I don't think you would be in violation if you only use the insiders edition, you are testing the software as agreed upon, by the TOS, therefore it is under a separate license. If you own a OEM of Win 7 or 8 and purchase a full version retail (not upgrade) of Windows 10, you are legally licensed and not in violation of the TOS. You may only use it on one system, thus legally you can use your licensed OEM Win 7, and your separately licensed full version Win 10 as a dual boot on one system.

If you use the upgrade version of Win 10 from a previous OS, then you are in violation of the TOS, if you continue to use the previous Operating System.

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/insider_wintp-insider_install/windows-10-dual-boot-with-windows-81/a34c9203-9778-4387-9ddc-bd52c6bdef51?auth=1

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/wiki/insider_wintp-insider_install/how-to-dual-boot-windows-10-with-previous-versions/9695dfc7-1c13-4d8d-b10b-587e78c6ac36

http://www.windowscentral.com/how-dual-boot-windows-10-preview-windows-81

Sorry way off topic.

Just to add to the topic, you can, turn off automatic device driver updates, from Windows updates.

My way to it in Windows 10 or Windows 8.1.

Right click start button, left click system, on the left side pane left click Advanced system settings. Choose hardware tab at the top, left click choose device installation settings, change the radio button to No, let me choose what to do, now change the additional radio button to Never install driver softawre from Windows updates. P.S. Save changes before closing.
I believe you will no longer receive device driver updates, from Windows.

In windows 7 or Vista right click my computer, left click properties and follow the rest of the above from advanced system settings.

[Pete!]

Back on topic:
Regarding the plight of dialup or metered connection users...

Techie:
When you said the following were you generalizing, or does Win 10 always do automatic updates at a given time of day?

....... The scheduled updates are for 3 AM, there computers aren't left on to download and install the updates, or automatically restart to install them. So much for automatic updates normal schedules.......

Possible solution to dialup users, and others, who want to install updates at their own pace.
Turn off your computer (or modem) at night. Most dialup users disconnect when not actively surfing anyway.
It works in Win 8.x .
Will that work in Win 10 ? Or will checking for updates start the "forcing" process?

[Corrine]

After downloading updates that require a restart to be installed, you'll receive a prompt and have the ability to use the scheduled time, change the scheduled time or restart now.

[techie]

The 3 AM was a set default time for always on systems. Every Windows I think since Win 98 automatically runs the update manager delayed anytime the system is turned on and connected to the internet as far as I know, if it was set to receive updates automatically.

Windows 10 checks for updates and starts installing in the background as previous Windows versions did. Basically if your connected to the internet it will start downloading updates if needed. If you don't get all of the updates, before you disconnect or turn off your system, it will start again when you turn it back on and reconnect to the internet. If you tell it to check for updates and updates are available it will start downloading the updates immediately.

It runs in the background and downloads silently, while your reading or posting in a forum. I believe it will install silently if no restart is required, i.e. Windows Defender update.

As Corrine stated it will notify you when a scheduled restart is needed, to finish installing updates.

[Digerati]

When I mentioned the dual boot, it was clearly stated using the preview release for insiders. You were allowed to use and test the software as is. You aren't required to upgrade your current system software, it can be a clean install, or as a dual boot as long as you stay logged into your MS account when using Windows 10 and provide feedback. I don't think you would be in violation if you only use the insiders edition, you are testing the software as agreed upon, by the TOS, therefore it is under a separate license.

Yes, as you correctly noted, for the "preview release for insiders".

If you own a OEM of Win 7 or 8 and purchase a full version retail (not upgrade) of Windows 10, you are legally licensed and not in violation of the TOS. You may only use it on one system, thus legally you can use your licensed OEM Win 7, and your separately licensed full version Win 10 as a dual boot on one system.

Yes, and again as you correctly noted, if you "purchase a full retail (not upgrade) of Windows 10". And that is on the original equipment the OEM was tied to.

[JDBush61]

Darksurfer, did you ever try any of the Win 10 previews? It's fairly simple to setup a dual boot system Win 10, with Win 7 or Win 8.

I'm very content with Win 7, yet am not completely adverse to trying Win 10. Please explain how to "fairly simply" set up a dual boot Win 10 and Win 7. Moreover, after setting up the dual boot, I'd like the option of removing Win 10 if it rubs me the wrong way. Is that possible? Thanks in advance.

(Current rig: Windows 7 64 bit; 174 GB free of 283 GB)

If you don't already have an Win 10 preview ISO, that could be a problem as MS isn't releasing anymore ISO files for WIN 10, even to insiders, just upgrades. I'm sure there are copies out on the net, be careful of your source.

Many thanks for the detailed reply. I'm not an insider, I don't have a Win 10 preview ISO, and I avoid downloading any files from the Net in which I cannot verify/trust the source. Thus, I suppose my dual-boot questions are moot. Anyway, thanks again.

[Pete!]

...... If you tell it to check for updates and updates are available it will start downloading the updates immediately. ....

So, I guess my scenario, for dialup users wouldn't work.
If it's a desktop, a dialup user isn't likely to pack it up and go to a hotspot routinely, just to check for updates.

[Corrine]

You can see what it looks like in Windows 10 when a restart is needed for a security update in the attached image.  Partially covered by the days to change the restart to is the hour/minute AM/PM option to change the restart time as well as the button to "Restart now".

[ky331]

Windows 10 Automatic Updates Start Causing Problems

With just four days left before launch, Windows 10's policy of automatic updates has run into its first major problem and it is causing many PCs to stop working correctly.

The flaw revolves around Nvidia graphics cards with users taking to Nvidia's forums to report Windows Update is automatically installing new drivers which break multimonitor setups, SLI (dual card) configurations and can even stop PCs booting entirely which pushes Windows 10 into its emergency recovery mode.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/07/25/windows-10-automatic-update-problems/

[Digerati]

I am all for automatic Windows Updates because I think for the "greater good", keeping systems current does more good. But as I noted long ago, forcing 3rd party driver updates via WU would be a mistake.

I have been defending Microsoft's decision to force WU on us because of that greater good - but I am now at a turning point. I am a long time multi-monitor user to the point I don't understand how anyone, including me, could ever live with just one monitor. And I have a NVIDIA card installed in this system. I am just glad I have NVIDIA GeForce Experience set to yell at me and not automatically install updates or this latest conflict between WU and NVIDIA AU (automatic update) may have snagged me too. And then I would have been beyond the turning point.

MS has 3 days to fix this.

[plodr]

Any links to this Emergency Recovery Mode?

If a computer doesn't boot, it is pretty hard to undo a bad update. (I make images and that would be my fix. But most users complain "it is too hard to learn how to do this".)

[ky331]

Microsoft releases tool to hide or block unwanted Windows 10 updates

Windows 10 testers who've complained about mandatory updates in Microsoft's new operating system might have a solution at hand. The tool, available as an optional download, lets you hide or block any update for Windows or a hardware driver.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-releases-tool-to-hide-or-block-unwanted-windows-10-updates/

Comment:   The article notes that in Windows 10, System Restore is turned off by default.